Housing Minister's incoherent policy

Koicarp

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Funny that because i still learn more stuff about my trade all the time, maybe thats because i work on all aspects of joinery ie shop fitting, shuttering, bench joinery, 1st fix, 2nd fix, finishing etc oh and not forgetting the house bashing which is the easiest of the lot.

I have not met any apprentice joiners in the last 3 or 4 years as nowadays the firms just want cheap labour who can do 1 aspect of 1 trade, and then the firm gets rid of them when they cant do other jobs that they have never been trained in.

Why would anybody decide to get a trade that involves running a van and buying thousands upon thousands of pounds worth of tools if they are only going to earn average pay.

If you are earning an average wage where does the money come from for the stuff you have to buy to do your job.

Trades are now getting average pay and are leaving the sites to go drive a taxi or if they are lucky they get the night shift at tescos.

You say you were cards in for wimpeys as a bricky so that means you still got paid when it was below 3degrees, if you are a subby bricky and its below 3 degrees you earn nothing that day which is another reason you have to earn an above average wage.

It seems strange to me that you think a fully qualified time served tradesman is a bit misguided by thinking he should be able to buy a house.

Of course we all learn more the longer we do our jobs, but the fact remains that tradesmen are quickly trained these days- I remember getting stick from the old guys when I was an apprentice because my apprenticeship was "only" 3 1/2 years. Others spend years in colleges and universities only to earn less than tradesmen.
There are still apprentices around, though they don't tend to be 16 years old any more- I know a handful of joiners who employ them- because they receive financial support to do so.
I actually worked as a subby for a couple of years too, and I just asked my accountant to account for the van and tools etc, which seemed to work quite well.
The fact that your pay rates have fallen is due to the market you work in. Builders under 40 haven't experienced a serious dip until now and it's a shock to them, personally I am more shocked that they have had it so good for so long. I got out of construction when I became a dad and was concerned that should a serious recession occur I wouldn't be able to support the kids. That was 1991 and financially it's the worst decision I ever made, as builders' pay far exceeded mine until 2008.
Of course I didn't say you shouldn't be able to buy a house if you want to do so- all workers should be able to do so. Unfortunately for those on average or below average pay it is very difficult at the moment. Though I have no sympathy for my drinking partners who complain about earning "5hit pay" when in reality they are earning average pay after nearly two decades of earning far more and doing nothing to protect themselves for a rainy day. Of course you are probably much younger and didn't benefit from the good times- but if you are staying in construction prepare yourself for ups and downs during your career.

Thrugelmir

hallmark wrote: »

Since IMO it is patently obvious that the best thing would be for them to return to something approaching sanity, however every shred of policy since 2000 if not before has been set to ensure this does not happen, and I am 100% convinced that no polititican of any hue would give an honest answer to this question.

No sane politician is going to tell the electorate the truth. However, they have no need to. The new financial world we are entering will create a natural correction and rebalancing of property values. .

cotleigh

The problem is where we're starting from. It might be better generally if prices were at a more reasonable level. But for that to happen now would be a disaster for all those people who bought at higher prices, and then in turn for all the banks that lent them all the money, and then for everyone else anyway because of the huge financial crash that would then come about. A few years of modest inflation is probably the least worst way of unwinding the debts.

Jimmy_31

Cleaver wrote: »

I haven't denied that people weren't lent money who shouldn't have been or that people didn't borrow more than the should have done. It's clear that that happened and it's clear that that was one of many factors that drove up house prices.

But it remains a fact that most banks did care how much they lent to people. This is evident by the fact that the vast, vast majority of people who took a mortgage over the past ten years can afford to repay. And I know interest rates are low, but not everyone is on a fantastic tracker rate. I've been on four different mortgage products since 2003 and they've all been around 4%.

I don't think we're that far apart in terms of thinking really. With all due respect I just don't think you understand how a market works.



Correct.



So would I. But that is never, ever going to happen. So you simply have to get on with making the most life to the best of your abilities rather than dreaming of utopia.

Im not really after a utopia, i would just like to live in a country that isnt ran by thieves.

I also would like to live in a country that isnt populated by people who say thats just the way it is.

I think it would just be easier for me to get out of the rat race and say bye bye to the taxman;).

Jimmy_31

Koicarp wrote: »

Of course we all learn more the longer we do our jobs, but the fact remains that tradesmen are quickly trained these days- I remember getting stick from the old guys when I was an apprentice because my apprenticeship was "only" 3 1/2 years. Others spend years in colleges and universities only to earn less than tradesmen.
There are still apprentices around, though they don't tend to be 16 years old any more- I know a handful of joiners who employ them- because they receive financial support to do so.
I actually worked as a subby for a couple of years too, and I just asked my accountant to account for the van and tools etc, which seemed to work quite well.
The fact that your pay rates have fallen is due to the market you work in. Builders under 40 haven't experienced a serious dip until now and it's a shock to them, personally I am more shocked that they have had it so good for so long. I got out of construction when I became a dad and was concerned that should a serious recession occur I wouldn't be able to support the kids. That was 1991 and financially it's the worst decision I ever made, as builders' pay far exceeded mine until 2008.
Of course I didn't say you shouldn't be able to buy a house if you want to do so- all workers should be able to do so. Unfortunately for those on average or below average pay it is very difficult at the moment. Though I have no sympathy for my drinking partners who complain about earning "5hit pay" when in reality they are earning average pay after nearly two decades of earning far more and doing nothing to protect themselves for a rainy day. Of course you are probably much younger and didn't benefit from the good times- but if you are staying in construction prepare yourself for ups and downs during your career.

Tradesmen are not trained at all in my neck of the woods, they finish their diy course and then walk on site and have not got a clue how to do the job they have been given. The only reason they end up on site is because the firms get a kickback for taking them on.

I work on a price mostly so you think i would be grateful to get an apprentice as this should up my wage for a week, i now refuse to have apprentices with me when i work on a price as they cost me too much money as they have no tools and dont even know how to cut a piece of timber. Saying that though the roofers love it when they get an apprentice:).

Im getting out of the site work as soon as i have bought a house as the rates of pay, workload and corruption is now getting beyond a joke.

Koicarp

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Im getting out of the site work as soon as i have bought a house as the rates of pay, workload and corruption is now getting beyond a joke.

Corruption is rife, some ex colleagues get work from councils if enough is put in the brown envelope- effectively buying work.

Cleaver

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

I think it would just be easier for me to get out of the rat race and say bye bye to the taxman;).

Why do you want to avoid paying tax?