Deductions for non-existent breaks

lynzpower

Cheers for that advice next time I get a full time job I'll be sure to remember what you said and I'll pass on my legally allowable breaks even though I'll probably be exhausted and make mistakes let alone be dehydrated and desperately need a drink.

By the way no employer can forbid you to have a drink of water. Its the law.

If they dont want you to move from your spot then they need to provide drinking water to you ( ie on a till, as you often see)

getmore4less

JDC14 wrote: »

The reason the cleaning tasks are variable are that if the place is dead (e.g. If I'm working the bar section) I can wipe tables, bottle up the fridges etc. before we close as I'll have time and then I can just mop as soon as the customers leave.

Whereas last night we were busy, I was given no help on my section (I radio'd reception 4 times but no reply, my acting manager walks over 5 minutes later, I tell him I need some help and he says "okay" and walks off).

So I couldn't do any cleaning until the bar was closed (10.30) and couldnt do all the cleaning around customers who were still there past 11, so I was stuck there till after 12. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough. So I'm * off, I'm effectively doing half hour free a couple of days a week.

So you know at closing time roughly how long the cleaning will take based on how busy you are. if the estimate is past a 6hr shift take the break at 10:30-11pm.

You could always make your customers less welcome in your section, clean around them complain at them if they make a mess etc.

Another option is to get them to prioritse the cleaning and only do the 6hrs

SarEl

lynzpower wrote: »

By the way no employer can forbid you to have a drink of water. Its the law.

If they dont want you to move from your spot then they need to provide drinking water to you ( ie on a till, as you often see)

No it isn't. It is the law that the employer must provide clean drinking water for employes - it is not a legal right to drink water whenever you want. Many supermarkets forbid water around the till areas - it is not a universal practice.

yvonne13_2

So have you got the answer you were looking for OP?

lynzpower

SarEl wrote: »

No it isn't. It is the law that the employer must provide clean drinking water for employes - it is not a legal right to drink water whenever you want. Many supermarkets forbid water around the till areas - it is not a universal practice.

Despite no specific duty, obviously the legislation states the general duty.

"to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work" of all their employees"

We knows that it is an absolute duty to provide drinking water at workplaces
Heres the guidance from the HSE on heat stress and dehydration
http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/information/dehydration.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/geis1.pdf


It could be quite easily argued that a lack of drinking water and staff being forbidden from drinking water at all within 6 hours could be deemed as not a safe system of work, especially in a catering environment.

In the risk assessment I expect that the business owner has assessed the risk to the staff team of not being allowed to have water at any point under the six hours, and has risk assessed the thermal comfort of the workplace. If there are more than 5 employees then obviously the Risk assessment should be recorded and distributed to staff. Failure to assess this hazard means an insufficient RA which is an offence under the Act.

I agree that in terms of the OP, he cannot be paid for this time and must take the 20 mins to use the rest facilities and to eat something, and rest his back etc.

LittleVoice

JDC14 wrote: »

IThe law is that as a 19 year old, I'm entitled to 20 or 30 minutes every 6 hours.

In all the replies, has anyone said that, as a 19 year old, you are entitled by law to just a 20 minute break (not 30 minutes) and it is not every 6 hours but just once in any shift which lasts more than 6 hours.

SarEl

lynzpower wrote: »

Despite no specific duty, obviously the legislation states the general duty.

"to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work" of all their employees"

We knows that it is an absolute duty to provide drinking water at workplaces
Heres the guidance from the HSE on heat stress and dehydration
http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/information/dehydration.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/geis1.pdf


It could be quite easily argued that a lack of drinking water and staff being forbidden from drinking water at all within 6 hours could be deemed as not a safe system of work, especially in a catering environment.

In the risk assessment I expect that the business owner has assessed the risk to the staff team of not being allowed to have water at any point under the six hours, and has risk assessed the thermal comfort of the workplace. If there are more than 5 employees then obviously the Risk assessment should be recorded and distributed to staff. Failure to assess this hazard means an insufficient RA which is an offence under the Act.

I agree that in terms of the OP, he cannot be paid for this time and must take the 20 mins to use the rest facilities and to eat something, and rest his back etc.

Nobody has ever said that the OP isn't allowed water at any time in six hours. We are now making stuff up! Nobody has said that staff are forbidden to drink water. But that does not give them the right to breaks to drink water or eat whenever they want. This thread is becoming ridiculous - we are arguing ponts that were never in evidence.

OP - you have no right to a paid break. That is the law. If you work more than six hours in a shift then you are entitled to a break of at least 20 minutes which is unpaid. If you don't take the break that is your business, but the employer is entitled to deduct that break whether you do or you don't, so you may as well. And on that note I am out of this ridiculous thread.