unfair dismissal offer

Martra_27

After taking employer to tribunal for unfair dismissal and disability discrimination the pre hearing showed in our favour the out come could be as much as £15,000 in lost wages and distress we have been told by our cab advisor. The employer came back with out of court settlement of £1,500 and job reinstated how would our case be affected if we turned the offer down

DVardysShadow

Martra_27 wrote: »

The employer came back with out of court settlement of £1,500 and job reinstated how would our case be affected if we turned the offer down

Does the £1500 cover loss of wages to the point of reinstatement? If it does, then you could not normally expect more from a tribunal, so it might be better to accept. But if it does not, I would say that the offer indicates that they don't feel they would win - and maybe the solicitor is trying to make his fee out of the wages shortfall, so you might do better to fight on.

Martra_27

thanks for your reply the bill for lost wages is £8,500 alone there are no lawyers involved we have the cab representative and the employer has deceided he doesnt need help as he is in the right! we where wondering if we go on with the fight would the fact the job offer was thrown in and we said no effect the judges decision in how much to award

zzzLazyDaisy

If you win your claim, the employment tribunal *may* take into account the refusal to accept the offer of reinstatement, when considering whether you have failed to mitigate your losses. However, in your case, the employer's offer is not a reasonable one, because reinstatement means that the dismissal ceases to exist and your employment continues unbroken, which means that the employer should reimburse all your lost wages. In any case, if you feel that the essential relationship of trust and confidence between employee and employer has irretrievably broken down and you do not feel that you could continue to work for this employer, then the tribunal would accept this as a reason for refusing the offer.

One other point, though - winning at preliminary hearing is no indication that you have a strong case. It merely shows that your case isn't so weak that the tribunal feels it can throw the case out without hearing the evidence. There is a long way between those two positions, so it may still be worth trying to negotiate a settlement as tribunal hearings are stressful and there are rarely any guarantees in litigation.

DVardysShadow

Martra_27 wrote: »

thanks for your reply the bill for lost wages is £8,500 alone there are no lawyers involved we have the cab representative and the employer has deceided he doesnt need help as he is in the right! we where wondering if we go on with the fight would the fact the job offer was thrown in and we said no effect the judges decision in how much to award

OK, I'm with lazy Daisy on this. As there is money and reinstatement on the table, without knowing the details of your case, I would say that the employer knows that the tribunal will award reinstatement. The offer leaves you short £7000 - which will be their solicitor's fee by some coincidence, I would imagine.

As ever you have to make your own judgement on whether to take this forward. If you case is actually rather poor and the best judgement call is that reinstatement would not be offered, then perhaps the offer is a good one. But I don't think the employer is thinking they have a good case at all.

duchy

Or it could be a cynical attempt by the employer -thinking that you can't afford to go on to cut their losses.
I'd write back asking if the £1500 is in addition to wages between x date and Y date so the offer would be £10,000 (or whatever) in total -as they are offering reinstatement. That way you are showing willing to work with them on a settlement -and have written evidence to show this in court and sounds better than "We tried to settle but they wouldn't consider it"

Uncertain

DVardysShadow wrote: »

OK, I would say that the employer knows that the tribunal will award reinstatement.

It would be very unusual indeed for a tribunal to award reinstatement. In any case they have no power to enforce it. If it is ordered and the employer refuses then they simply have to pay an additional award. I can't remember the details but it is not as much as you might like to think.

There aren't many circumstances where a reinstatement is desirable in the real world so the OP would need to be very clear that this is an exception before even considering it. What you do need is a clear idea of what amount would be acceptable as a settlement. As Daisy says tribunals can be stressful and unpredictable so a compromise may be worth considering.

Martra_27

you guys are great we didnt realise that the reinstatment offer meant that he would have to reimburse lost wages the employer probably does !.The pre hearing made him pay £500 up front for the case to proceed further .Which is why our cab representative has told us we have good chance.The situation arose when hubby came over ill and his contract was terminated whilst on sick leave after only 4 weeks without warning . He has since been diagnosed with kidney disease .As his job is a manual job he would be unable under drs advice to carry on all his previous duties so would have to have lighter work .How would we then stand with regards to the lost wages would it be classed as going back under new contract

Jarndyce

Martra_27 wrote: »

After taking employer to tribunal for unfair dismissal and disability discrimination the pre hearing showed in our favour the out come could be as much as £15,000 in lost wages and distress we have been told by our cab advisor. The employer came back with out of court settlement of £1,500 and job reinstated how would our case be affected if we turned the offer down

Pre-hearings don't make judgements on the merits of the substantive case, they only sort out preliminary issues. There has not therefore been any decision 'in your favour' on the substantive case, although I'm sure the Judge (who may or may not be the same Judge that hears the substantive case) might have expressed or indicated a view based on a cursory reading of the papers and, remember, without hearing any evidence.

You should be aware that orders from Tribunals for reinstatement are as rare as hen's teeth. Whether or not you accept the employer's offer is therefore less to do with the amount of money involved (which will probably increase if you hold out) but more to do with how much you want your job back and whether it is feasible for you to return. Many factors can affect that - relationships with colleagues, career prospects, etc etc.

Bear in mind that they didn't need to make that offer - they could have just offered you more money. It therefore suggests that it is a genuine offer to have you back in the fold. Whether or not you accept depends entirely on your view of that prospect.

Edit: Just read your last post - reinstatement means exactly that - on your old contract with no break in continuity. The fact that the PHR Judge ordered the employer to pay a deposit contradicts what I say above - that is a clear message that their case has little merit. My analysis of whether or not you accept the offer, however, still holds true dependent on your own response to the prospect of returning to work.

DVardysShadow

Jarndyce wrote: »

My analysis of whether or not you accept the offer, however, still holds true dependent on your own response to the prospect of returning to work.

I would incline to think that the employer wants rid. But once bitten, twice shy, they realise that being opportunist about this did not work - and it probably makes it harder to try and force a dismissal again, because it could be seen in the context of the current issue.

So,my thought is to take the reinstatement, go through all the processes and look for an agreed departure if he would rather not work there after having been back for a while.

Martra_27

As jobs are few and far between these days returning is tempting what rights would we have if he is using this as a ploy to avoid the a larger payout and then proceeds to make things very difficult on return .Would this case be taken into consideration, would we then have no come back ?