ECB lowers Interest Rates a further 25 basis points

RenovationMan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8943327/Mario-Draghi-cuts-ECB-interest-rates-speech-in-full.html

"Based on its regular economic and monetary analyses, the Governing Council decided to lower the key ECB interest rates by 25 basis points, following the 25 basis point decrease on 3 November 2011."

I remember Graham Devon and his gang, spitting feathers when the ECB raised rates and the good old BoE kept theirs frozen, they were citing the ECB as an example to proper management of an economy.

Fast forward a few short months and the ECB performs an embarrasing U-turn and the 'Graham Gang' are silent.

Looks like the ECB should have looked at a few more variables than just the German economy.

Graham_Devon

My gang?

ECB as an example of proper management of the economy?

Heres the thread from when the ECB raised rates.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3159518

Me thinks you are making things up again.

Thrugelmir

Seems as if the Euro banks are all deleveraging their balance sheets in order to increase reserves.

With the region’s leaders gathering in Brussels in their latest bid to shore up the euro, the European Banking Authority announced that over all, banks needed to raise 114.7 billion euros ($152.7 billion) in the event the debt crisis was not resolved soon. That was more than the estimate of 106 billion euros in October.

Which does not bode well for refinancing of mortgage debt next year for UK lenders.


http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/stress-test-reveal-european-banks-need-more-capital/

RenovationMan

Graham_Devon wrote: »

My gang?

ECB as an example of proper management of the economy?

Heres the thread from when the ECB raised rates.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3159518

Me thinks you are making things up again.

LOL. You've spent the last 2 years on your 'raise rates to fix the economy' soapbox and was wringing your hands in frustration when the ECB raised their rates and we maintained ours. Now that the ECB rate rise has been totally discredited you're backtracking. Admit it, you were completely wrong about raising rates and the BoE were right. Go on, admit you were wrong, once in your life.

Graham_Devon

RenovationMan wrote: »

LOL. You've spent the last 2 years on your 'raise rates to fix the economy' soapbox and was wringing your hands in frustration when the ECB raised their rates and we maintained ours. Now that the ECB rate rise has been totally discredited you're backtracking. Admit it, you were completely wrong about raising rates and the BoE were right. Go on, admit you were wrong, once in your life.

When you can prove any of that, then I'll admit I was wrong...but you are simply making things up to suit you so that you can have a pop. I've already linked to the interest rise thread, which doesn't show any of what you have made up.

Seems to be a general theme with you at the moment....just make things up and have a go about what you have just made up.

Desperation works in strange ways though I guess.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

When you can prove any of that, then I'll admit I was wrong...but you are simply making things up to suit you so that you can have a pop. I've already linked to the interest rise thread, which doesn't show any of what you have made up.

Over the last months/ years there have been multiple "raise interest rates" type threads.

Your position has consistently been that interest rates should rise (not to put pressure on house prices...oh no...but to reduce inflation). When the ECB raised rates this was seen as a vindication that Europe had got it spot on and further evidence that the BoE didn't know what they were doing. The search function is crap so I might be thinking of someone else.

The ECB made a huge mistake raising rates and lost credibility whilst sticking two fingers up at the PIGS's. At least now they've seen the error of their ways.

DervProf

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Desperation works in strange ways though I guess.

I think desperation is an accurate word to use in this case. The repetitive confirmation that "I did the right thing" gives the impression of someone who is at least a little concerned about their situation. Every time the BoE makes the "right" decision, RM has to remind us that it works in his favour. I can't think of any other forum member who feels the need to constantly tell us about their personal financial situation. Yes, most of us do occasionally post certain details, only RM feels the need to do this on a regular basis. He's either a bit worried, or a show off. I bet Merv is on RM's Christmas card list........

RenovationMan wrote: »

the good old BoE

Making things up is another thing that I noticed when I first read an RM post. Took ages to make him realise or admit his mistake.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Over the last months/ years there have been multiple "raise interest rates" type threads.

Your position has consistently been that interest rates should rise (not to put pressure on house prices...oh no...but to reduce inflation). When the ECB raised rates this was seen as a vindication that Europe had got it spot on and further evidence that the BoE didn't know what they were doing. The search function is crap so I might be thinking of someone else.

The ECB made a huge mistake raising rates and lost credibility whilst sticking two fingers up at the PIGS's. At least now they've seen the error of their ways.

Oh really, wotsthat chucking in his version of "you did say it, maybe, just can't find anything".

Yes, I have often stated interest rates should rise. But have recently moved back from that position, but notice no one actually notices that, and have stated inflation will likely fall from now.

What I haven't said, is anything that renno man has made up above. I have provided a link to the thread he talks of (when the ECB raised rates) showing I said none of it, and have invited anyone to search for this stuff I said, but no ones been able to give evidence. So he's simply making things up. Thats the type of desperation we last saw when chucky was around.

My issue over the last couple of years has not been "raise interest rates". It's been inflation and how utterly wrong the BOE got it. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see inflation rising well above target. Raising interest rates may have slowed this a bit, hence why the ECB went ahead.

That was my issue. My other issue was the fact that others on here kept saying its the wrong type of inflation and interest rates are useless in fighting it. BUT they were the very tool we used to lower the very same inflation in 2005-6.

People need to stop making things up, and then saying the search function doesn't work very well. If it's stated, the search function will pick it up. If it hasn't been said, then sure, the search function "won't work very well"! It's pointless and just creates argument, though it's pretty obvious that was Renno mans entire point with this thread.

Worth remembering it only took me agreeing with Dervprof in an argument he was having with Renno man for me to get this nonsense ever since. Talk about fickle!

Generali

RenovationMan wrote: »

LOL. You've spent the last 2 years on your 'raise rates to fix the economy' soapbox and was wringing your hands in frustration when the ECB raised their rates and we maintained ours. Now that the ECB rate rise has been totally discredited you're backtracking. Admit it, you were completely wrong about raising rates and the BoE were right. Go on, admit you were wrong, once in your life.

Just out of interest, what do you think would solve the current economic problems please?

Interest rates up or down? More Government or less?

Fiat money or commodity money?

It's easy to criticise, harder to come up with a solution.

geneer

RenovationMan wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8943327/Mario-Draghi-cuts-ECB-interest-rates-speech-in-full.html

"Based on its regular economic and monetary analyses, the Governing Council decided to lower the key ECB interest rates by 25 basis points, following the 25 basis point decrease on 3 November 2011."

I remember Graham Devon and his gang, spitting feathers when the ECB raised rates and the good old BoE kept theirs frozen, they were citing the ECB as an example to proper management of an economy.

Fast forward a few short months and the ECB performs an embarrasing U-turn and the 'Graham Gang' are silent.

Looks like the ECB should have looked at a few more variables than just the German economy.

ha ha. Gosh the non-bulls sure are getting particularly non-bullish in recent months.

RenovationMan

Generali wrote: »

Just out of interest, what do you think would solve the current economic problems please?

Interest rates up or down? More Government or less?

Fiat money or commodity money?

It's easy to criticise, harder to come up with a solution.

A consistent economic policy would be a good start. I've already made it clear on plenty of Graham's 'Raise BoE rates' threads where I stood, and that was to maintain the status quo until the banks recapitalise and lending to businesses can return to normal. Once businesses feel secure in their borrowing then they will start to invest and expand, which in turn will fuel a rise in economic output.

What we didn't need was an increase in interest rates to control inflation that was patently not controllable by raising UK interest rates. I'm glad to see that Graham has at least acknowledged he was wrong all that time and now sees the folly of prematurely raising rates.

Only when the banking sector is secure will the economy start to recover.