Are Labour two faced or two stupid?

Graham_Devon

lvader wrote: »

Just re-read that it only applies to Eurozone countries, so it's OK for Labour that other European countries cut too fast too soon as long as UK doesn't follow suite?

If we had signed up, they would be attacking us for signing up.

No doubt it would have been an attack based on budgets having to be passed off by Brussels before we can go ahead and plan our own finances.

Basically, with labour doing what they are evidently doing at the moment, there is nothing that the coalition can do right, and nothing that they won't pour scorn on.

If there are 2 possible outcomes to something that has to be done, BOTH outcomes will be the wrong one. It's as simple as that in my mind, and even Alistair Campbell has agreed as much on This Week.

olly300

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If we had signed up, they would be attacking us for signing up.

No doubt it would have been an attack based on budgets having to be passed off by Brussels before we can go ahead and plan our own finances.

I've heard that our budget goes to Brussels anyway. It's just that they don't approve it. There was some argument last year about it as the budget was revealed to Brussels before the UK Parliament.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Basically, with labour doing what they are evidently doing at the moment, there is nothing that the coalition can do right, and nothing that they won't pour scorn on.

In all the political parties more so for the Tories, less for Labour and even less for the Lib Dems there are MPs who dislike the entire European idea.

The entire thing is political point scoring.

JayScottGreenspan

Clegg and Labour are looking like complete idiots in their opposition to the veto.

They keep saying we don't want to be marginalised, and we want to be at the table so we can shape policy in British interests.

Err, so we have to accept policy that is against British interests, in order to be able to... shape policy that is in British interests??? Is that really their best argument?

What do they think Germany would do if we were talking about a tax on the motor industry? What would France do if we were talking about abolishing all those terrible agricultural subsidies?

hallmark

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Basically, with labour doing what they are evidently doing at the moment, there is nothing that the coalition can do right, and nothing that they won't pour scorn on.

Yes, it's interesting just how much contempt Nulabour still hold the electorate it. You'd think it would have dawned on them by now that if they instead praised one or two things that merit praise it would lend infintitely more credence to their arguments when they criticize everything else.

But Milliband & Balls etc are far too stupid to get that, they only know one mode & that is to play pure politics 24hours a day 7 days a week. So instead of anything approaching meaningful debate we just get milliband drawling through his nose about how terrible every single thing the coalition does is.

Mallotum_X

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

Clegg and Labour are looking like complete idiots in their opposition to the veto.

They keep saying we don't want to be marginalised, and we want to be at the table so we can shape policy in British interests.

Err, so we have to accept policy that is against British interests, in order to be able to... shape policy that is in British interests??? Is that really their best argument?

What do they think Germany would do if we were talking about a tax on the motor industry? What would France do if we were talking about abolishing all those terrible agricultural subsidies?

I think the point they are making (badly) is that we should have negotiated, and gained something from a deal, changed the terms so that we could sign up, rather than just give up and walk away in defeat.

I doubt Millibrand would have been able to get a decent deal, but Cameron basically lost and had to walk away, rather than gain anything.

We might not have signed up but the way this will all go though we have lost the chance to influence anything now.

This one was always about what Germany wanted, I dount really believe France has any power in this but needs to appear as if it has.

The trouble is now its all just silly political games, with various politicians looking back home to the next elections rather than anyone working out the best way forward.

JayScottGreenspan

Would it really have been better to renogotiate to something that is moderately bad for Britain? Better that we don't sign up and it doesn't apply to us.

If someone's offering you a s**t milkshake you tell them to keep it. You don't dilute it and drink your share.

If the EU try to force any of this on us through the back door, then surely that would have to be referendum time, and hopefully they could kiss goodbye to our fairly substantial share of the farm subsidies and wage bill.

CLAPTON

Mallotum_X wrote: »

The trouble is now its all just silly political games, with various politicians looking back home to the next elections rather than anyone working out the best way forward.

What specifically do you have against democratic input to the process?
Do you think we need a strong firm leader that knows what's best for us.

Mallotum_X

CLAPTON wrote: »

What specifically do you have against democratic input to the process?
Do you think we need a strong firm leader that knows what's best for us.

Do you think the process is allowing the EU politicians to sort the problems out, or is it typical short-termism to get re-elected rather than fix anything.

Mallotum_X

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

Would it really have been better to renogotiate to something that is moderately bad for Britain? Better that we don't sign up and it doesn't apply to us.

If someone's offering you a s**t milkshake you tell them to keep it. You don't dilute it and drink your share.

If the EU try to force any of this on us through the back door, then surely that would have to be referendum time, and hopefully they could kiss goodbye to our fairly substantial share of the farm subsidies and wage bill.

The trouble is, from whats been reported over the weekend the crappy stuff will probably still apply to us anyway. If the big European Banks were to go down, we would be just as knackered, even if we said "its your mess". Better to try and work out how we can get this thing sorted.

Its not an us and them situation, if they balls this up we will be deep into the crap without having had any input on how we got there.

toby3000

Couldn't you equally argue that its odd for a government that's commited to balancing it's OWN budget, and presumably thinks that's what governments should aim for, refused to sign up to a treaty requiring just that?