What now? EU

vivatifosi

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Actually, Sarkozy's victory was in getting rid of us and let us think it was our idea. We were never going to help in this crisis, just distract. So he has not made the prospects for a resolution worse by securing our departure, he's made them better by enabling those who remain to focus.

Is that a bad thing though? I don't want an EU pull-out as I think it would be bad for the economy for many of the reasons you've suggested. However we also have to realise that we've never wanted to join the Euro and have always been among the more sceptical nations, therefore we are never and were never going to be at the centre of the European experiment.

The Euro nations have to sort out the currency and we are not going to be a part of that. Even if we voted in favour, we were never going to march straight in and take a central place in something that does not as directly affect us. Whether the veto happened now, or we fell out a month down the line, there's a certain inevitability of greater union in the Euro zone because - as many have stated - there has to be in order for the currency to succeed. It wouldn't matter whether there were 10 members of the club, 17 members of the club or 27 members (with Croatia). Unless we want to play the same game, we still won't get a touch on the ball. And whatever happens, we definitely shouldn't enter anyone half-decent in the Eurovision Song Contest next year, we are destined to come last!

sheffield_lad

vivatifosi wrote: »

Is that a bad thing though? I don't want an EU pull-out as I think it would be bad for the economy for many of the reasons you've suggested. However we also have to realise that we've never wanted to join the Euro and have always been among the more sceptical nations, therefore we are never and were never going to be at the centre of the European experiment.

The Euro nations have to sort out the currency and we are not going to be a part of that. Even if we voted in favour, we were never going to march straight in and take a central place in something that does not as directly affect us. Whether the veto happened now, or we fell out a month down the line, there's a certain inevitability of greater union in the Euro zone because - as many have stated - there has to be in order for the currency to succeed. It wouldn't matter whether there were 10 members of the club, 17 members of the club or 27 members (with Croatia). Unless we want to play the same game, we still won't get a touch on the ball. And whatever happens, we definitely shouldn't enter anyone half-decent in the Eurovision Song Contest next year, we are destined to come last!

I agree why is this not a good position to be in free trade yet no micky mouse money/debt. Sounds good to me well done Cam.

Would love to see the French view if we proposed a tax on agriculture lol,

sims01

madeupname1 wrote: »

I am curious as to why the swiss (and the other countries outside of the Euro zone) have decided (or are expected to decide) to nonetheless agree the protocol agreed on Thurs / Fri? The way it is reported here is that it is an agreement towards greater fiscal unity by which governments agree that debt should not exceed x amount under penalty of financal sanctions. I don't really understand why any country would voluntarily agree to that if they don't need to be bailed out or are not otherwise part of the single currency.

The fiscal union proposed only applies to countries that adopt the Euro. Other things discussed - e.g. about financial regulations - apply to everyone.

tartanterra

I find it refreshing that we are stepping back from the precipice of further EU integration. For too long, power has been slipping away from this country, and by default the right of self determination for it's citizens.

I for one, would be happier to see us stand on our own two feet rather than be a small (and generally ignored) voice in a superstate dominated by Germany and France.

Yes, there may well be financial fallout, but this country has suffered worse than that and emerged on the other side.

I think "call me Dave" has got this right. We can (and will) survive the fallout.

Finally, this from Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

For me, this sums up the current European shenanigans perfectly.

DVardysShadow

tartanterra wrote: »

Finally, this from Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

For me, this sums up the current European shenanigans perfectly.

Indeed, Cameron has obtained a little temporary safety from his Eurosceptics. And most of the EU rejection has been stoked up by a diet of years of bogeyman stories.

I think your little epithet cuts both ways.

tartanterra

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Indeed, Cameron has obtained a little temporary safety from his Eurosceptics.

And of course, the British public he represents, who make it clear in every poll carried out that they do not want any more powers transferred to Brussels......:)

DVardysShadow

tartanterra wrote: »

And of course, the British public he represents, who make it clear in every poll carried out that they do not want any more powers transferred to Brussels......:)

It is more a case that this British public have gained some of that temporary safety. But they will still be moaning about Brussels telling them what to do for the next 20 years.

StevieJ

tartanterra wrote: »

And of course, the British public he represents, who make it clear in every poll carried out that they do not want any more powers transferred to Brussels......:)

Even if it wasn't UK powers being transferred to Brussels

A._Badger

StevieJ wrote: »

Not as good as The Mail is it

I prefer to read Socialist Worker. Over your shoulder.

pqrdef

Well at some point soon enough, the club of 26 are going to decide that they can't exempt Britain from all their policy decisions, and leave Britain free to undermine them, provide "unfair" competition, etc. They will try to make policies that apply to Britain as well, and if we try to veto them, they will try to abolish the veto. Then we'll only have two choices, roll over or quit altogether.

We can forget the pipedreams of the Tory Right, renegotiating our whole relationship with Europe etc. That is not an option that is on the table or ever will be.

The tragedy is that Merkel and Sarkpuppet are wrong. They've been wrong since the start of this crisis, and everything they've done has only made it worse. But still they lord it over Europe. Somebody should be wiping the floor with them, but nobody has what it takes. It ought to be the British PM's job, but Cameron can't do it, because he doesn't believe in Europe at all, so he can't bring himself to give a damn about how to fix it.