McKenzie Hall replied to "prove it" letter, advice needed

scratchyrat

Hi all,

I'm posting this on behalf of a friend as we've been following the advice here as it seems these duplicitous scumbags are well known around these parts. I know there's loads of threads on them but I've been having trouble finding info on this particular issue with them.

McKenzie Hall have been chasing her for a 3 mobile phone debt from years ago (not statue barred) of couple of hundreds of pounds. The letters are going to her folks house but she no longer lives there.

She sent them the standard "prove it" letter a couple of weeks ago, also reminding them they aren't to chase a debt in dispute. The letter specifically asked for proof of liability of the debt. I thought that would either be the last of it or they would send concrete proof, but they replied 5 days ago with this:

"Dear Miss Blogs

Please find attached your statement of account or copy agreement as requested. Payment must be received at our office within 7 days."

Then they provided various details of how this can be paid.

Attached to the letter was a single page of an overdue 3 mobile phone bill for just over £64 requesting payment by the end of May 2009.

I'm not an expert in these matters, but surely the last page of an overdue phone bill from 2009 can't be construed as liability of debt? This isn't what was requested as they claim in the letter.

I'm unsure of what action to take next, I'm thinking reply and request the CCA agreement and then report them to the OFT/Ombudsman for demanding payment on a debt they've been notified is in dispute.

Is this the right action to take, or is the evidence they've provided really proof of the debt? They could have got that from rifling through her bins...these bunch of charlatans really get under my skin. I'd suggest offering them the £64 to get them to eff off and leave her alone but I doubt for one second it be the last of it.

bottleofred

Hi Scratchyrat,

I know that phone contracts are different, as people often don't physically sign the contract, but would have thought they'd have needed to show some kind of payment details as a pose to an old statement, but this in itself could be enough to show proof as I'm really not sure. Fermi is probably the best MSEr to answer this reply and hopefully he will be along soon with an answer for your friend.

Good luck

Red

chanz4

As its an invoice it is proof of the debt, as long as its not just a computer typed list. But where does the couple of hundred come from, how did your friend pay the last bill... CCA wont work as its a service agreement. You cant put payment (bank details on statements), what if you got my bill.....

IainMacca_2

Something to check........I had one of these from mckenzie hall for an old business mobile and the 'proof' that they sent was just a computer printout from (presumably) their system.

I rejected this 'proof' as irrelevant and despite their threats it was obvious that they could not provide real documented evidence.

Took a while but after many letters including to Experian and Equifax (who contacted MH) they eventually dropped it and were forced to remove from my credit file.

scratchyrat

bottleofred wrote: »

Hi Scratchyrat,

I know that phone contracts are different, as people often don't physically sign the contract, but would have thought they'd have needed to show some kind of payment details as a pose to an old statement, but this in itself could be enough to show proof as I'm really not sure. Fermi is probably the best MSEr to answer this reply and hopefully he will be along soon with an answer for your friend.

Good luck

Red

Thanks, I would have thought so myself. An overdue notice is not proof of debt in my opinion, there's nothing to say that it hadn't been paid in full at a later date. I've had similar notices myself from my electricity company, later paid in full. The fact that a DCA could in future use that to claim I owe money is a bit scary to me personally.

chanz4 wrote: »

As its an invoice it is proof of the debt, as long as its not just a computer typed list. But where does the couple of hundred come from, how did your friend pay the last bill... CCA wont work as its a service agreement. You cant put payment (bank details on statements), what if you got my bill.....

According to some older letters, the couple of hundred comes from extra admin/invoice fees McKenzie Hall have been tacking on themselves, not from 3. Its not enough for them to buy debt for pennies on the pound, they've gotten greedy and almost tripled the original amount.

IainMacca wrote: »

Something to check........I had one of these from mckenzie hall for an old business mobile and the 'proof' that they sent was just a computer printout from (presumably) their system.

I rejected this 'proof' as irrelevant and despite their threats it was obvious that they could not provide real documented evidence.

Took a while but after many letters including to Experian and Equifax (who contacted MH) they eventually dropped it and were forced to remove from my credit file.

This is a computer printout/photocopy, but I'm assuming its the only evidence they have on file so have just sent this to her hoping it's enough to scare her into payment.

nottoolate

its nowhere good enough. proves absolutely nothing. and as you rightly say a statement from some random point does not prove that there is anything unpaid.

mh can only add on charges that are allowed for in the original orange contract

you are not liable to pay any of there invented ones.

scratchyrat

Thats good to know, how they can make this stuff up like this is beyond me. How is it even legal?!

chanz4

why not contact 3 and ask for copy invoices?

scratchyrat

She got in contact with 3 a while back when they first started sending letters to ask what was going on. They informed her that since they've sold the debt on, they want nothing to do with it. As far as they were concerned its between her and McKenzie Hall and recommended she call them (which thankfully she didn't)

nottoolate

usual rubbish from 3.

but if mh want to claim the debt then they have to prove it and what they claim

similar example here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/48589701#Comment_48589701

can add to that something from oft rules that say

Charging for debt recovery

3.10 Charges should not be levied inappropriately or unfairly.

3.11 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:

a. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay recovery charges when this is not the case

b. claiming recovery costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual provision to be able to do so

Even where there is an express provision, a charge may still be unfair if it does not reflect actual and necessary costs.

c. not giving a clear indication in agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default

d. applying unreasonable charges.

An 'unreasonable charge' in this context would be a charge, the level of which, is not based on the recovery of actual and necessary costs.

chanz4

So three in around about way do admit their was a debt sold on from her account.