Question time

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I don't know who the labour bloke was, but he was being pretty silly in some of the twisting and questioning to Ken. I thought Ken was gonna get up and punch him at one point!

"we won't take any lectures from you on debt, ken clarke".

was pretty funny stuff. let's ignore the last administration and start talking about 18 years of tory rule again. really pathetic stuff.

was interesting when he started arguing that the cost of debt would not increase if we were borrowing and spending more "because we can set our own interest rates". i'm not sure if he understands that having control of our own fiscal policy doesn't mean that we get to choose what UK govt debt yields....nevermind.

i thought the american / canadian whatever guy had it about right - he basically said that if labour had won the last election, the situation would be exactly the same but the same argument would be going on. cuts or more spending, net result is probably about the same really.

Jennifer_Jane

Wookster - there will be a Labour Government in 3 years, and I just hope that we are all in a better position to withstand them by then.

The Labour chappie is supposedly 'Up and Coming', at least in his mind. He is Chuka Umunna, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. He is an ex-Solicitor, half-Nigerian with an English/Irish mother and a grandfather who is or was, a High Court judge. I have no idea if he has any bright ideas about innovation in these difficult times. I think I would prefer someone more 'innovative' than an ex-Solicitor. If he wanted to make his name, he could be coming up with some startling and great ideas. But no, just stands up in Parliament slagging off the Coalition.

I like Deborah Meaden, thought she was straightforward and was interested in her views. I like Dragon's Den, and think it's just what we need.

Rochdale_Pioneers

chewmylegoff wrote: »

i thought the american / canadian whatever guy had it about right - he basically said that if labour had won the last election, the situation would be exactly the same but the same argument would be going on. cuts or more spending, net result is probably about the same really.

There is a difference between them on tone, and I doubt Labour would have been dumping quite as much of the cuts onto council shoulders as the Tories, but events would have swept away Darling's budget just as much as they have swept away Osborne's budget.

Caveat_Mortgagor

Wookster wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that what this country needs is a labour government.

It has become clear to me that
1. the labour 'everyone can have anything now without paying for it' propaganda machine is far more appealing than the coalition message that one must eventually pay for what you consume
2. the frothing masses with their ever growing sense of entitlement don't see a problem in wanting more than they pay for.
3. the only way that message will get across to the fiscally incontinent is if the UK has a full blown sovereign debt crisis.

To be fair, one of them did suggest raising taxes to fund pensions. Whilst I find the suggestion abhorrent, it does at least show they have started to understand you cannot steal from the future (our children and the unborn) to fund current excesses.

However, if a stranger comes up to me and demands £50 I would tell him where to go. If he threatens to lock me up for non payment, I would still resist. If he points a gun at me for resisting, I would succumb.

The left want the government to legitimise stealing from me with exactly the same threats as outlined above!

Wookster

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Wookster - there will be a Labour Government in 3 years, and I just hope that we are all in a better position to withstand them by then.

That's the time to buy and get a 5 year fixed mortgage!

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

The Labour chappie is supposedly 'Up and Coming', at least in his mind. He is Chuka Umunna, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. He is an ex-Solicitor, half-Nigerian with an English/Irish mother and a grandfather who is or was, a High Court judge.

I wish he would just listen to how absurd he sounded lecturing Ken Clarke on borrowing. That's the problem with Labour, they are now saying that they will borrow more and that is the fiscally conservative approach. There are so many holes in their arguments: Pensions need reform but we support the strikers. Pensions are unfunded, but we were in power for 13 years and we never made any efforts to ring-fence pension funds.

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

I like Deborah Meaden, thought she was straightforward and was interested in her views. I like Dragon's Den, and think it's just what we need.

She had some good points, but ultimately I do think her point about youth not being able to get jobs at the expense of Eastern Europeans is wrong. I think there is an expectation that the first job you get is well paid, perfect, with limited requirements to work up the payscale, whereas that is mostly absent with Eastern Europeans. Government does need to be run more like a business (i.e. efficiently) though.

grizzly1911

Watched a snipit of Hard Talk later. Need to watch it though.

There was a Fund/Investement Manager form the States.

He "admitted" that the current capitalist model had gone out of control.

He likened it to taking the speed limits off a motorway, with no other safe guard, ends in misery.

Need to watch it though.

I use to watch Question Time - I have given up.

This Week is more informative and they aren't constantly trying to score points, oh and it has some humour too.

Wookster

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Watched a snipit of Hard Talk later. Need to watch it though.

Do you know if that is still on iPlayer?

chewmylegoff

Wookster wrote: »

She had some good points, but ultimately I do think her point about youth not being able to get jobs at the expense of Eastern Europeans is wrong. I think there is an expectation that the first job you get is well paid, perfect, with limited requirements to work up the payscale, whereas that is mostly absent with Eastern Europeans. Government does need to be run more like a business (i.e. efficiently) though.

my view is as follows:

all countries have a cross section of lazy / average / highly motivated people, and low / average / highly educated people.

in a contained system, since the highly motivated people with decent educations would not be prepared to work at starbucks because of the lack of career prospects coupled with low pay. so starbucks would have no choice but to employ the lazy poorly educated strata.

however, if you take the highly motivated people with (or probably even without) decent educations from a country where they would earn less doing skilled work than they would if they worked at starbucks in the uk, and told them they are free to come and work in the uk, then suddenly the lazy poorly educated people from the UK find themselves competing for jobs with well educated and/or highly motivated people who are willing to work for £6ph. the result is that 90% of the available jobs go where you would expect.

meanwhile, there are a load of lazy and/or poorly educated types still milling around in poland. we don't see them because they don't come here, because they'd rather sit on their !!!!!! and work in starbucks in poland.

Wookster

chewmylegoff wrote: »

however, if you take the highly motivated people with (or probably even without) decent educations from a country where they would earn less doing skilled work than they would if they worked at starbucks in the uk, and told them they are free to come and work in the uk, then suddenly the lazy poorly educated people from the UK find themselves competing for jobs with well educated and/or highly motivated people who are willing to work for £6ph. the result is that 90% of the available jobs go where you would expect.

meanwhile, there are a load of lazy and/or poorly educated types still milling around in poland. we don't see them because they don't come here, because they'd rather sit on their !!!!!! and work in starbucks in poland.

Definitely a lot of truth in that, but it doesn't take into account the fact that JSA in effect, sets the minimum wage and provides something of a dis-incentive for that segment of the population to work.

chewmylegoff

is JSA really a massive problem which disincentivises the young to work?

my albeit limited understanding of JSA is that the max you can claim is £50/week, and if you live at home with your parents and have never paid NIC, the total amount you can claim is £0. this understanding may be completely wrong of course.

i can see how if you manage to push out a couple of kids then benefits provide a complete disincentive to work at minimum wage levels, but i didn't think you were eligible for much at all as a young single person.