Mandatory Work Activity - Anyone done it?

red_devil

saintjammyswine wrote: »

It wont come to anything because it isnt forced labour. If people dont want to do it they dont have to. They wont get their JSA but if you make the choices you live with the consequences.

its legalised bullying at the moment though is it not? You do this or we wont pay you. It does not make sense. You could go out and commit a crime and you would still be entitled to be fed and watered.

mattw7

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

As long as your benefits are below £182.40 a week which is minimum wage for a 30 hour week, so your take home will be lower.
Don't forget to take into consideration that it's 'benefits' and not just JSA, so in some cases it's working for council tax benefits, housing benefits, *others* and JSA on top of that.

I know that some people get benefits that are above the level of some NMW jobs but you are missing the point. If it were a paid job you wouldn't be getting benefits in the first place, well not JSA anyway.

The thing is these companies are exploiting the opportunity of free labour as well as the fact that people are working for benefits, this cannot be allowed or judged as lawful IMO. Its a double whammy really and one that has to be fought against for the poor people who are currently engaged in this.

dandelionclock30

If someone is doing a placement they should be paid the NMW end of story.The companies clearly want the labour then they should pay for it. In terms of experience most people can do basic shop work unless they have a severe disability in which case they wouldnt be on JSA.

scheming_gypsy

mattw7 wrote: »

I know that some people get benefits that are above the level of some NMW jobs but you are missing the point. If it were a paid job you wouldn't be getting benefits in the first place, well not JSA anyway.

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I'm not missing the point. If they were getting paid for it then their benefits would be stopped during the programme, and they'd take home £169.46 or £1186.22 for the 7 weeks.
So for some people, if they were working for minimum wage instead of their benefits, they'd be worse off. Some of these people being made to work illegally / slave labour / for their £67.50 a week could still be in a better position than some of the NMW people they'll be working alongside.

So it's easy enough to say it's illegal, slave labour, under NMW but it's not that straight forward. Yes for some people it will take them under the NMW but you can bet there'll be some people made to do it who'll spend their time pissing and moaning about working for £67.50 a week, but will probably be 'earning' more than the people they work with... So it's all swings and roundabouts in individual cases.

DebiT

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

I'm not missing the point. If they were getting paid for it then their benefits would be stopped during the programme, and they'd take home £169.46 or £1186.22 for the 7 weeks.
So for some people, if they were working for minimum wage instead of their benefits, they'd be worse off. Some of these people being made to work illegally / slave labour / for their £67.50 a week could still be in a better position than some of the NMW people they'll be working alongside.

So it's easy enough to say it's illegal, slave labour, under NMW but it's not that straight forward. Yes for some people it will take them under the NMW but you can bet there'll be some people made to do it who'll spend their time pissing and moaning about working for £67.50 a week, but will probably be 'earning' more than the people they work with... So it's all swings and roundabouts in individual cases.

NMW is around £6 per hour. People who are currently farmed out to these fat cat employers for their JSA are "earning" around £1.70 per hour.
You would have to be raking in a hell of a lot of extra benefits to make it up to minimum wage!

saintjammyswine

mattw7 wrote: »

We will see!

I wouldn't be so sure of yourself. Being given mandatory work experience in receipt of benefits can be seen to be a form of working for below minimum wage which is illegal. All someone has to do is prove that this company is not exploiting the opportunity of free labour and with so many shops, supermarkets and other companies involved I can't see how they aren't. The law says you need a minimum ammount of money to live on, it should never ever be used to force people into working for benefits, that here is the key.

IMO the courts will rule that any form of working scheme whereby people are working with others in a paid job that they must be renumerated with at least NMW or the going rate in that field of work.

Saint, you seem to condone the behaviour of these organisations probably because you are working in that area but you should be worried for your own job as if the courts do rule in favour the government will drop these contracts for sure. Then it will be the likes of you doing your own job under some other scheme probably for receipt of your own benefits. Then we'll see how you like it on the other side of the fence!!!

Thanks for the concern. I work in a GFE College on partnerships, projects etc. This is simply one area that my job covers. I am not covered by these contracts but instead work with people who are unemployed on similar projects that are funded seperately. That is why I work with WP providers, JCP etc. I do see the very good work that goes on behind the scenes by very genuine people. I have already posted that there is dross out there and that people (companies and clients (candidates etc. however they are termed)) take the mick and try to work the system. Having been both sides (on JSA prior to getting this job) I know for a fact that people play the game to get the money whether a provider claiming for people doing crosswords or clients working cash in hand or just going through the motions of programmes :eek:.

DebiT

red_devil wrote: »

its legalised bullying at the moment though is it not? You do this or we wont pay you. It does not make sense. You could go out and commit a crime and you would still be entitled to be fed and watered.

Its more like legalised blackmail, (and not all that legalised), as I think will shortly be proven.

As for all those who work in the industry of "helping people find work" or exploiting the vulnerable, if it wasnt for the unemployed (who they look down their noses at), they wouldnt have a job either.

HappyMJ

DebiT wrote: »

NMW is around £6 per hour. People who are currently farmed out to these fat cat employers for their JSA are "earning" around £1.70 per hour.
You would have to be raking in a hell of a lot of extra benefits to make it up to minimum wage!

A hell of a lot? I don't think I rake in a hell of a lot of benefits. Minimum wage for a 30 hour week is £169.46 per week after tax and NI. Benefits are JSA £67.50 plus council tax £16.58 plus housing benefit £91.15.....Total £175.23.

scheming_gypsy

DebiT wrote: »

NMW is around £6 per hour. People who are currently farmed out to these fat cat employers for their JSA are "earning" around £1.70 per hour.
You would have to be raking in a hell of a lot of extra benefits to make it up to minimum wage!

strange thing is, one of my mates has just told me about somebody he works with. They're both on minimum wage but the other one has two kids and obviously gets benefits, so my mate is always winding him up about everybody else paying for his kids.
Today they were talking and he asked how much he actually gets; the answer was 'about £14,700 a year'. So he gets more in benefits than he does in wages.... so they might not need to do a lot!

DebiT

HappyMJ wrote: »

A hell of a lot? I don't think I rake in a hell of a lot of benefits. Minimum wage for a 30 hour week is £169.46 per week after tax and NI. Benefits are JSA £67.50 plus council tax £16.58 plus housing benefit £91.15.....Total £175.23.

You can work more than a 30 hour week you know. A 40 hour week for example, would take you well over £200.