A quick bit of advice from a dentist please!

brook2jack

In England there are three bands of treatment which will earn the dentist in total £22 ish, £66 ish or £260 ish.

Take a band two treatment.... patient charge £47 earns dentist about £66. For that the check up, xrays, gum treatment, all fillings and all root treatments have to be provided. A root treatment on a back tooth takes an hour on average. A surgery in a nhs practice in a not very expensive area costs around £130 an hour to run.

70% of dentists do not own the practice. They take home before tax about 28% of what they earn the rest is expenses. Things got more critical after the 2006 new dental contract when many practices withdrew from nhs practice. PCTs have tried to improve access and companies have set up dental practices importing dentists from abroad. Unfortunately many of these dentists move on very quickly as they realise what seemed like attractive earnings in their own country don't go far in the Uk and the way of working in the NHS is not sustainable. So many people find that they see a different dentist every time they go or see a newly qualified dentist who has to do a years training in the nhs.

There are small family nhs practices where there is more stability in dentists but it is increasingly difficult to remain viable, as the nhs dentistry fees have essentially been cut for several years. Last year by 5% and this looks to increase.

wow400

Aah, thanks for the background information - I had no idea. It almost sounds like the 'system' would rather there are only private dentists!
Something will surely have to give - there must be a minimum standard of dental work & if that can't be done on the NHS fees available then what's going to happen?

welshdent

wow400 wrote: »

Thanks brook2jack - are the NHS fees to dentists seriously lagging behind reality then?
If so, I'd have thought that there would either be (almost) zero NHS practices left or uber discontent with NHS dentists!

Appreciate the info anyway,

Kind regards,
Nic

As a primarily NHS dentist we are MASSIVELY behind but this idea spread by the media of some massive private sector utopia that we all retreat in to for a rich easy life is utterly false. Its a government spin agenda to blame us for them !!!!!!ing up the system. Not only are the fee levels much lower, we actually have to bear financial responsibility for other peoples neglect. That is to say that if someone attends requiring a lot of work, it actually costs me more to provide the work that the NHS pays me. I Would be better off giving them a fiver to go elsewhere as it would cost me less. Great system eh!

The spin is "dentists are taking out teeth because they earn more money than saving teeth". Thats incorrect. Dentists are "encouraged" to take out a tooth rather than saving it because they would actually not LOSE money by saving it. Depends how you spin it! Not saying its right or wrong just saying how it is. We are not all the money grabbing so and sos that many including a lot on here would have you believe. The only way I can make my contract work is by maintaining my existing patients as well as I can without seeing new patients who are a gamble as to how much work they would need doing. More work = more money paid out by me!

welshdent

wow400 wrote: »

Aah, thanks for the background information - I had no idea. It almost sounds like the 'system' would rather there are only private dentists!
Something will surely have to give - there must be a minimum standard of dental work & if that can't be done on the NHS fees available then what's going to happen?

The government want us out of the health service ... successive governments. Labour brought in the current contract which is horrendous. Something does have to give you are right but the powers that be also know that if we provide substandard work that is potentially harmful, we can not blame the system. Its on our head and we would be held accountable by the GDC/solicitors/legal system. If we elect to do a treatment it must be done well and no account of how much we were paid comes in to it. So unless we say no to the contract we have to bite the bullet. I would gladly say no I just dont know how to get out at this stage. No private practices looking for full time associates in my area


p.s. I am in work not striking! and YES my pension is being fiddled with! I just dont believe in dragging my innocent patients in to things nor do I agree with striking in general. Not that the BDA balloted us LOL!

wow400

Sounds like a very poor system I have to say & I'm amazed there are as many NHS practices as there are.

I wouldn't worry too much about what the media have to say about the profession - I'm sure the majority of educated people who can think for themselves don't believe half the stuff they read / hear!

Anyway, pension? What's that?

What age do you guys retire - we've moved up to 65 now!

welshdent

wow400 wrote: »

sounds like a very poor system i have to say & i'm amazed there are as many nhs practices as there are.

I wouldn't worry too much about what the media have to say about the profession - i'm sure the majority of educated people who can think for themselves don't believe half the stuff they read / hear!

Anyway, pension? What's that?

What age do you guys retire - we've moved up to 65 now!

snap! Lol.

wow400

That'll be fun trying to be all delicate in the back of someone's mouth with an air drill & you've got a touch of the DT's! ;-)

brook2jack

It depends at what age your body breaks down at. Dentists get slower the older they are and need excellent sight, dexterity and backs. The back is the thing that tends to give out first although there are an increasing number of folks having to give up because of skin problems caused by wearing gloves most of the day.I know dentists who work in their seventies but for most the physical and mental demands and these days the impossible paperwork and regulations mean most go in their sixties.

nhs pensions for dentists doing nhs work are under negotiation at the moment, however since the government unilaterally stopped seniority payments which everyone had contributed extra to (payments to allow for the fact dentists can't work as fast the older they get) no one is expecting much. Old scheme allowed for retirement at 60 new scheme 65.