Public Sector Strike(s)

Graham_Devon

tartanterra wrote: »

But I'll tell you what, why don't I pay a bit more tax so that you can get paid for your breaks, have free tea at work and get to retire years before me?

No free tea, eh? Well, that's worth striking for.

Frankly, I'm appalled.

Well you'd be more appauled if you found out that you were paying a high up NHS manager a double rate, as they are also on a board somewhere else, so get payment for being at the hospitall, while getting payment at the same time for being on the board. They can't possibly be in both places at the same time, but they will be getting paid as if they are.

No payment for tea for them, they will get it made for them, by someone you are paying to make the tea and be a general dogsbody and drink it while "on a virtual meeting" therefore getting paid and putting in an expense claim for the platter that the local business is currently couriering to his office.

Later on, when they make their way out of their office to their paid for dinner, they will put in an expense claim for the travel to the dinner, eat the free dinner, put an expense claim in for the travel home, and might do some work "on the go" and put a claim in for extra hours.

Meanwhile, they will have maybe 10-20 people running around undertaking endless admin tasks, in order to "change things within the organisation" only to find that over and over again, those 20 people have completely wasted their time as by the time they have done all the groundwork, the systems have changed, and big wig manager has put in another 11 claims for dinners to discuss changing what they are currently changing.

Don't begrudge a nurse a cup of tea.

The best I ever witnessed was about 4 years ago. A high up manager sent to the region to sort out a defecit. He removed 57 staff. He then hired 38 staff as they were staffed too low and missing targets just 6 months later, actually re-hiring some who had been laid off. His wage was 380k a year. 380k would have paid for 12 nurses. They could have kept all the staff on for his waste of space. He was here for about 13 months, before someone else came in to change what he had changed.

HelenDaveKids

tartanterra wrote: »

As an electrician, I'm lucky to take home £200 a week at the moment. There is very little work around in the private sector.
I don't get my council tax paid, I don't receive housing benefit and I have three kids (who incidentally, don't get free school dinners, free music lessons or free school trips).

But I'll tell you what, why don't I pay a bit more tax so that you can get paid for your breaks, have free tea at work and get to retire years before me?

No free tea, eh? Well, that's worth striking for.

Frankly, I'm appalled.

I'm trying to make the point (which I think you missed) that we work damn hard and don't get perks like so many in the private sector. I don't get meals out, don't get a company car, or any other fringe benefits. I don't think we striking for all the hours we freely work extra or a cup of tea - are we!!
As for being an electrician ( my Husband being one too) he took a big pay cut from the working in the private sector to join the public, because he wanted the pension and security. Well didnt we do well! I personally dont have a choice in the career I have chosen.

Why should we persistently get below inflation pay rises?
When are you planning to retire? Cos my date keeps moving, does yours? I started paying 6% of my wages towards my pension from the age of 18, when did you start paying towards yours? My husband has been paying AVCs for years.

If you think the public sector so good, why dont you work for them! Have a look on NHS jobs and see how much an electrician gets paid.

anyway who do you think most of these people are? Do you think everyone in the public sector gets shed loads of money? its just one big pile of managers earning big bucks. Look around, we are normal people trying to do a good job.

tartanterra

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well you'd be more appauled if you found out that you were paying a high up NHS manager a double rate, as they are also on a board somewhere else, so get payment for being at the hospitall, while getting payment at the same time for being on the board. They can't possibly be in both places at the same time, but they will be getting paid as if they are.

No payment for tea for them, they will get it made for them, by someone you are paying to make the tea and be a general dogsbody and drink it while "on a virtual meeting" therefore getting paid and putting in an expense claim for the platter that the local business is currently couriering to his office.

Later on, when they make their way out of their office to their paid for dinner, they will put in an expense claim for the travel to the dinner, eat the free dinner, put an expense claim in for the travel home, and might do some work "on the go" and put a claim in for extra hours.

Meanwhile, they will have maybe 10-20 people running around undertaking endless admin tasks, in order to "change things within the organisation" only to find that over and over again, those 20 people have completely wasted their time as by the time they have done all the groundwork, the systems have changed, and big wig manager has put in another 11 claims for dinners to discuss changing what they are currently changing.

Don't begrudge a nurse a cup of tea.

The best I ever witnessed was about 4 years ago. A high up manager sent to the region to sort out a defecit. He removed 57 staff. He then hired 38 staff as they were staffed too low and missing targets just 6 months later, actually re-hiring some who had been laid off. His wage was 380k a year. 380k would have paid for 12 nurses. They could have kept all the staff on for his waste of space. He was here for about 13 months, before someone else came in to change what he had changed.

Oh! I've got it! As managers aren't value for money, then no one else in the public sector should have cuts either. That's cleared that up then.

If you want to provide all public sector workers with free tea, then feel free to pay for it yourself.

The point I was making was, as almost all of us in the private sector are having a hard time, it's churlish to whine about us not providing free tea to public sector workers.

Andy_L

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And as an aside, while I'm onto the point of trying to direct the anger at the right people, heres two ends of the scale in my sort of area of work...

Scale A) Middle managers and everyone else. Be that cleaners on minimum wage, receptionists on £7.15 an hour, IT guys on £10.68 an hour. Nurses on £13.75 an hour.

All of them do not get paid lunchbreaks. All are expected contractually to work christmas eve, day and boxing day, aswell as new years ever, for no extra pay (believe some nurses have got an uplift in some hospitals).

As I'm sure I've pointed out to you before, this is not what Agenda for Change (the NHS's T&Cs for most employees) says.
People who are "expected contractually to work christmas eve, day and boxing day, as well as new years eve" either receive overtime or are on a shift pattern which includes a premium to make up for working on Bank Holidays & weekends.

As for lunch breaks, working hours are "37½ hours, excluding meal breaks" if you had a paid lunch break then your hours would just increase accordingly

Graham_Devon

tartanterra wrote: »

Oh! I've got it! As managers aren't value for money, then no one else in the public sector should have cuts either. That's cleared that up then.

I just wasted 4 minutes of my life trying to lay out how silly begruging someone a mere cup of tea was when you look at the bigger picture...didnt I?

ChiefGrasscutter

HelenDaveKids wrote: »

Why should we persistently get below inflation pay rises?

.

Pretty normal for many years in the engineering sector: Mind you in the private sector pay rises are related to how well the company is doing - the inflation rate is not a relevant factor.
Then there were the job cuts. I've seen firms who used to employ 6000 down to 850 while remaining the same sized company in financial terms
Places like the B.Leyland car plant in Cowley and British steel in S.Wales used to employ over 10000 people at anyone site - not anymore.
If you worked in pharma research, as far as the UK is concerned its pretty well closed down so those people have to move abroad if they want to work in that sector
Even high end R&D is now moving abroad to places places like Shanghai & Calcutta.

Once the entire private sector has finally had enough of the UK and has decamped emasse to foreign lands I'd be genuinely curious as to where the public sector is going get its money to pay the staff/invest/pensions/whatever.

The solution is we as a nation have to be globally competitive again. Either we can do that by devaluing the £ or we can do it by reducing costs in the workplace and that means both taxes and wages.

Addendum
I remember one union wage negotiation went like this. We offer you 1.5%. Reply: That's outrageous we are not accepting it. OK: came the rejoinder we are now offering you 0% so next year your wages will not change - see you goodbye.

tartanterra

HelenDaveKids wrote: »

I'm trying to make the point (which I think you missed) that we work damn hard and don't get perks like so many in the private sector. I don't get meals out, don't get a company car, or any other fringe benefits.
The only benefit I receive is a company polo shirt. Are you that envious of this?

Why should we persistently get below inflation pay rises?
Just like everyone I know in the private sector?

When are you planning to retire?
Probably around 70.

Cos my date keeps moving, does yours?
Yes, the government keeps moving the retirement age, as we are all living longer. It's happening to everyone - look outside your protected bubble.

I started paying 6% of my wages towards my pension from the age of 18, when did you start paying towards yours? My husband has been paying AVCs for years.
I pay roughly the same, however, taxpayers don't add another 14% to mine.

If you think the public sector so good, why dont you work for them!
If you think you are being treated badly, then why don't you leave the public sector?

Why do you think that the public sector shouldn't reflect the private?
Do you think you should be treated better than us?

tartanterra

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I just wasted 4 minutes of my life trying to lay out how silly begruging someone a mere cup of tea was when you look at the bigger picture...didnt I?

Not really, you just wanted to concentrate on some imaginary "manager". I was commenting on the Public services sense of entitlement.

Graham_Devon

tartanterra wrote: »

Why do you think that the public sector shouldn't reflect the private?
Do you think you should be treated better than us?

Your post in response to Helen just summarises all of this brilliantly.

It's not us and them.

It's us.

Public or Private, most of us are suffering while the rich continue to control the government like puppets on a string. All of us are merely working to proivide for ourselves, our loved ones and offspring, and all of us just want a fair deal for a fair day. By that, we just want to be able to pay our bills and have just a little left over to enjoy life while we are here. It's not much to ask, is it? We don't want to make just enough money to enable us to get to work and pay our bills.

Every problem we face today is because of greed of the people at the top.

It's not a result of a nurse having a cup of tea at the expense of a taxpayer.

I feel this is a slight cliche, but we are all in this together. Whether thats the policeman ready to endanger his life to protect your house, or whether it's you as an electrician making sure the elderly in their care home are not going to get electricuted. Would you begrudge a policeman a cup of tea if he's just been round your house and put you and your loved ones minds at rest? No, of course you wouldn't, or I hope you wouldn't. But you have just benefitted directly. When people don't they often forget that they may just rely on Helen to save their life....while at the same time, hoping she doesn't get the "luxury" of a simple cup of tea.

We all need each other. Having a go at each other isn't doing any good, as at the end of the day for us "normal" every day folk, the difference between working in public or the private sector is trivial in terms of wealth. We can talk about a free cup of tea and a 14% public contribution vs a 3% private sector payrise all day. I bet you get some sort of transpor which you have entirely forgotten about. But we are homing in on one single factor.

Meanwhile, the rich laugh at us squabbling with each other, and log the time and energy spent laughing at us down as an expense.

We have bankers taking hundreds of thousands JUST in bonuses. Ex MPs at war trials, getting paid to be there. High end public sector directors getting paid twice for having what in the private sector would be classed as conflicts of interest.

Meanwhile, we argue with each other over a cup of tea and a polo shirt.

This is us. We are being engineered to fight amongst ourselves, while those above us simply pocket whatever they can, at any point they can, and create massive problems for our younger generation to deal with long after they have enjoyed their bloated, greedy lifestyle.

grizzly1911

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

Once the entire private sector has finally had enough of the UK and has decamped emasse to foreign lands I'd be genuinely curious as to where the public sector is going get its money to pay the staff/invest/pensions/whatever.

....we can do it by reducing costs in the workplace and that means both taxes and wages.

The first bit is the real problem that all this shaving a bit here and delaying a bit there isn't really addressing. As you point out this has been un-ravelling since the seventies.

Of course if we have no money coming in to the country there will be no demand either and we could all emigrate to said foreign lands.

Reducing cost in the workplace would be good, perhaps that could start at the top and filter it's way down just as it does in the public sector starting at Government;)