Disciplinary Proceedings and sick pay

Superbiatch

Question on behalf of a friend of mine who feels a case of constructive dismissal is being built up against them as they are no longer of use to a company (ie lost contracts). Can an organisation refuse sick pay (including ssp) whilst someone is facing disciplinary proceedings? It states this in the staff handbook and I was wondering the legalities of it.

They have just been issued with a written warning which they are about to appeal as the complaints involved are quite flimsy and the organisation seem to have accumulated them together to warrant this warning. Also, named witnesses have not been questioned once the 'investigation meeting' had taken place which is the basis of the appeal, making the hearing unfair.

Any advice is greatly appreciated but I can only give so much information without identifying my friend.

EDIT: I forgot to mention they do suffer with clinical depression which is controlled with medication, but obviously this is taking its toll and they are not eating, sleeping or working productively at all. They have not informed their manager they suffer with this condition.

Emmzi

anything above SSP is not a legal requirement unless stated in the contact but I would have thought they had to pay SSP.

Your friend cannot rely on any mitigation for illnesses they have not disclosed. How on earth is the employer meant to allow for things they don't know anything about?

Be aware constructive dismissal is the toughest thing to prove at ET and it's a very stressful process.

Who lost the contracts? Your friend? A warning may not be a bad option compared to dismissal with no redundancy pay.. not fair, but pragmatic.

Emmzi

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_10018786

Superbiatch

Emmzi wrote: »

anything above SSP is not a legal requirement unless stated in the contact but I would have thought they had to pay SSP.

Your friend cannot rely on any mitigation for illnesses they have not disclosed. How on earth is the employer meant to allow for things they don't know anything about?

Be aware constructive dismissal is the toughest thing to prove at ET and it's a very stressful process.

Who lost the contracts? Your friend? A warning may not be a bad option compared to dismissal with no redundancy pay.. not fair, but pragmatic.

Thank you for your advice, its a relief about statutory sick pay. I can understand where you're coming from with the employer not knowing about their illness but I also understand why they didn't tell their employer due to the stigma which still exists.

My friend didn't lose the contract, it just so happens they live in a part of the country whereby it would have been convenient to have someone local but this contract was never won in the first place.

Obviously its hard without you knowing all the facts, but is witnesses not being interviewed a valid reason to appeal? Is it even worth appealing as my friend feels there will be something else manufactured against them soon which would lead to final, and then dismissal?

Emmzi

Impossible to determine if it would be material or not.

If your friend is in a union now is the time to call them.

Superbiatch

No union I'm afraid, its just me, them and a few decent colleagues from work assisting

Jarndyce

Superbiatch wrote: »

Obviously its hard without you knowing all the facts, but is witnesses not being interviewed a valid reason to appeal? Is it even worth appealing as my friend feels there will be something else manufactured against them soon which would lead to final, and then dismissal?

Yes, this could well be a valid reason to appeal. If you think that the penalty is unwarranted then you should appeal, and this is your only opportunity to do so. Once it is on the record, any subsequent tribunal hearing an unfair dismissal claim will not look at the circumstances of it.

How they deal with this appeal will give you a good indication as to whether or not your fears are well founded.

Superbiatch

Jarndyce wrote: »

Yes, this could well be a valid reason to appeal. If you think that the penalty is unwarranted then you should appeal, and this is your only opportunity to do so. Once it is on the record, any subsequent tribunal hearing an unfair dismissal claim will not look at the circumstances of it.

How they deal with this appeal will give you a good indication as to whether or not your fears are well founded.

Thank you, much as we thought. They are going to appeal and I shall update on the outcome. There is 5 working days from issuing a warning to an appeal being lodged, how soon would someone expect an appeal to take place?

Sorry for all the questions, I found myself in the same situation once and kicked myself because I didn't appeal.

Their manager actually said to them in the initial meeting 'to consider their position' which doesn't fill me with hope as they seem to have disregarded any evidence which my friend provided.