Osborne's plan to spend his way out of trouble

Going4TheDream

Generali wrote: »

The problem is, voters across Europe and the US seem to think that there's a nice easy solution to this if only someone else will pay for it: the Bankers, the 1%, the welfare scroungers, the Baby Boomers, the overspending Gen Yers. Everyone has a different group to blame for what's going on which doesn't include them.

In reality, the problem is that for the last 2 and a bit generations, voters have consistently voted to run deficits and to accrue massive future liabilities with no interest at all in how they will be paid or indeed bothering about accounting for them at all. They've voted for politicians that will bring home the pork, pushing through their pet special interests. The same criticisms apply to the main 7 or 8 parties in the UK at least.

Examples of Government funded bodies (via the London Councils Grants Scheme's stated spending over £500 for October 2011-link):

http://www.akademi.co.uk/
'A cutting-edge organisation working to enhance the practice, understanding and appreciation of South Asian dance in the UK.'

http://www.rota.org.uk/pages/default.aspx
'To be a BAME-led social policy think tank that focuses on race equality and issues affecting Britain's BAME communities, and creates an environment for the equalities third sector to flourish.' Apparently one equal opportunities body funded by the Government isn't enough as you also need these too:
Roma Support Group
Irish Travellers Movement in Britain
Jewish Womens Aid
Aanchal (Online magazine for Pakistani women)
Casa de la Salud Hispano Americana
Organisation of Blind African and Caribbeans
Refugee & Migrant Forum of East London
Refugees in Effective and Active Partnership (REAP)
Samafal Somali Women's Association
Southall Black Sisters Trust
Southwark Refugee Project Ltd
Tamasha Theatre Company (Indian Theatre Company)
The Asian Health Agency
ELBWO (East London Black Women's Organisation)
Ethnic Alcohol Counselling In Hounslow
Imkaan (The collective voice for Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic & Refugee Women's sector)
Refugee Action Kingston
United Anglo Caribbean Society (white, brown and yellow homeless not welcome apparently)

This is just one small part of an obscure part of Government and you have to work pretty hard to find where the money's going. I'm sure that many or even all the above organisations do sterling work and I have nothing against an online magazine for Pakistani women or helping out blind people of whatever racial background. The problem is that there will be massive amounts of duplication, waste and probably fraud going on. Most of the grants are between about £7,500 and £40,000 a month. That's an average of perhaps quarter of a million a year each and the list of grants and payments to keep the office running (excluding staff) runs to 8 pages of close type.

No matter how you slice and dice this, it can't continue. This stuff is dragging the British economy down and will take the rest of you with it.

Whilst a lot of the groups you mention seem to be London based I am sure there are many similar groups around the country.

It is all rather ironic when today Joseph Rowntree group published a report on White working class views on social cohesion (mainly relating to Bradford/Oldham) but again I imagine these sentiments could easily be felt by working class people in a number areas in the UK perhaps?

http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/working-class-views-neighbourhood

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Cameron and Osborne are worried, and rightly so. Because if we do double dip, this won't be an inherited recession, it will be seen by voters as a Tory recession, and the result of Tory cuts.

While I don't disagree in full with some of what you say....I'll ask the seemingly unanswerable question.

What cuts?

Going4TheDream

Graham_Devon wrote: »

While I don't disagree in full with some of what you say....I'll ask the seemingly unanswerable question.

What cuts?

When I was in hospital recently, I asked one of the nurses what the impact of the cuts were expected to be for them. She said overtime was cut as they were no longer covering people on holiday, sickness cover etc. Same in the part of the civil service where my daughter works, overtime cut, maternity leave not being covered, people not being replaced when they leave, the jobs just getting shared out amongst the remaining employees.

It seems to be 'subtle' at the moment, perhaps it is because there haven't been major jobs cuts and redundancies as such yet that we haven't seen/felt the impact?

Thats without proposed cuts to many benefits, that will start to take effect at some point.. child benefit for higher earners, tax credits freeze and the HB cuts.....

It all seems like its happening by 'stealth' at the moment?

Generali

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Whilst a lot of the groups you mention seem to be London based I am sure there are many similar groups around the country.

It is all rather ironic when today Joseph Rowntree group published a report on White working class views on social cohesion (mainly relating to Bradford/Oldham) but again I imagine these sentiments could easily be felt by working class people in a number areas in the UK perhaps?

http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/working-class-views-neighbourhood

These are groups paid by London councils hence the London bias! I specifically pulled out the groups dealing with race. I could have done the same for women (lots of charities dealing with domestic violence against women for example, duplication again?), GLBT or the Arts.

daveyjp

kabayiri wrote: »

Counsel : "M'lord, I disagree with the prosecution's claim set forth above"

Judge : "Do you have any evidence?"

Counsel : "Yes, m'lord. I offer exhibit A - Scotland!"

Norway was a very poor Country, found oil, saw it as a Godsend and made a plan as they knew it would run out. Invest all the cash from the black gold and have a sustainable future. Result!

UK found oil and acted like Viv Nicholson, spend, spend, spend. Now it's running out.

tomterm8

Graham_Devon wrote: »

While I don't disagree in full with some of what you say....I'll ask the seemingly unanswerable question.

What cuts?

The irony is that (a) the Conservative government hasn't made any cuts as such and (b) the Conservative government still looks like it is going to cause a massive recession.

It's one of those imponderables.

I blame the greeks.:rotfl:

sheffield_lad

Indeed I don't think most of the general public realise that this is only the thin rnd of the cuts, just listen to the whining when 2014 cuts are announced OUCH! Needs to cut the public sector a lot deeper a lot sooner.

macaque_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/osbornes-plan-to-spend-his-way-out-of-trouble-6268865.html
Tory Rhetoric = You can't spend your way out of a debt crisis.
Economic Reality = You can't cut your way out of a recession.
Political Necessity = Avoiding a double dip or there will be no second term.
It's certainly interesting to watch......

Hmmm..... I agree with this.

We need a Maggie or the much vilified John Major.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

heathcote123 wrote: »

Hamish, you really seem to buy into the 'government spending leads to growth' stuff,

Not as a long term solution, no.

When we get back into growth, I think the job of the state should be to get out of the way, shrink itself, and reduce the taxation and regulatory burdens to a minimum.

But I also accept that one of the functions of government is to stabilise the economy when markets or the economy become dysfunctional.

And we're well into dysfunctional territory....

so I have a serious question for you.

The previous goverment claimed they only borrowed to invest, not to spend.

So why aren't we all loaded now? Where is the return?

The previous government borrowed to spend, not invest.

Don't even get me started on the wasted opportunity that Labour squandered by pandering to the left wing, big government, nanny state mentality of it's base.

Or the near criminal waste of money thanks to the Tories scrapping multi billion pound projects that were nearly paid for.

What makes you think the next trench of goverment spending will be more successful?

To be honest, I don't, because both parties have missed the window of opportunity.

We're now doomed to several years of stagnation, or even a mild recession, thanks to competing ideologies and idiotic rhetoric trumping sensible policies from both parties.

This small scale tinkering around the edges is pointless, worse than pointless in fact, because it's just a waste of money as it won't fix the problems.

It's far too little, far too late, and unless govt wakes up and applies some brute force to the problem, nothing will change.

Do you really, honestly, think the solution to our current woes is to borrow more? It's just whenever I hear the likes of Balls etc trotting out the old spending arguament, it makes my brain hurt so much I facepalm.

I wouldn't trust Balls with the contents of a child's piggy bank. Let alone the economy.

I think we've got to accept radically smaller goverment, or go bankrupt. Knowing politicians, I think the bankruptcy bit is the most likely, but it may take a while.

I think we need to insist on a radically smaller government.

Bit only once the economy is in a position to absorb such a rebalancing.

StevieJ

macaque wrote: »

Hmmm..... I agree with this.

We need a Maggie or the much vilified John Major.

You mean the same Maggie who did this (from davey's post above)

Norway was a very poor Country, found oil, saw it as a Godsend and made a plan as they knew it would run out. Invest all the cash from the black gold and have a sustainable future. Result!

UK found oil and acted like Viv Nicholson, spend, spend, spend. Now it's running out.