£1bn fund to tackle youth Unemployment Good idea or bad?

grizzly1911

OptionARMAGEDDON wrote: »

Perhaps we could use the silly sort of money blown on the nhs, lung cancer through primary smoking for example, to get youngsters into work that cant get a job through no fault of their own.

Don't forget that smokers also contribute massively through taxation. In reality lung cancer patients don't last that long, it's still probably breakeven. Tobacco could be made illegal of course but then the Government would lose the taxation - might find that across the pool of smokers the odds are in favour of the Government.

I have never smoked, but did know someone close who died of lung cancer who worked from 15 until retirement at 68.

In response to the OP we have had numerous similar schemes over the decades and this will have little or no real effect, for the money, IMO. A view endorsed by many commentators on todays news programs.

It is a "cheap" political move.

These type of roles have often been sourced in the public sector in the past.

Real jobs are required, that produce something tangible, that can be sold as exports. That is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

As another poster has said it will no doubt bump a few older people out of the way too.

Of course they could tackle immigration......

nightwatchman

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Of course they could tackle immigration......

The problem with this is that the business leaders will scream bloody murder.
I am working in hospitality industry and currently the 80% of our employees are from abroad (best part of them out of EU)

Probably you will say that business will be forced to employ locals (or at list from within EU) but the truth is that there are no locals apply for the jobs we offer.
The few that will apply are not stay more than few weeks and have a terrible attitude towards work.
For example I remember this young single mother that work with me for few weeks spending most of her time searching the web for cheap breast implant operations. She was throwing a dagger look when she was asked to get off from the back office computer to look after a guest or do a bit of a job related activity.

The lack of British in our type of industry is not just on the low paid part of the scale of jobs, like waters or bartenders.
The top job (the General Manager) in the outlet where I work has gone to a South American person, the jobs just below have gone to two Indians. Then there are few British below them. After them the 100% of our supervisory team are from out of the EU.
For all the rest of my associates I don’t need the digits of both my hands to count the ones borne British.

I can not blame my company for employ them, after all every business will get employees that will have the job done, if they are from India so be it.
I have to add that all them people on the top jobs has started as waters, housekeepers and bartenders on our company and they have work their way up to the top.
Ten years ago that was not the case, yes we had the odd French or Greek waiter but that was about it. The difference today is that most locals can enjoy a similar lifestyle to our employees without have to work, all thanks to the generous benefit system.

However you could also argue that if there were no foreigners available we would have offer better wages to attract the locals, but with our profit margin if we offer higher wages then we should start selling a G&T at around £10.00…..
Then who on earth could afford us? We would have gone bankrupt.

Blaming the immigration for unemployment without talking about the monstrosity of the benefit system that incentivises people not to work is plain short-sighted.
If ten years ago by been employed you was making more than be on benefits then I am sure that today most of my associates would be British.

Without low pay immigrants or low paid locals (take your pick) companies like the one I work will be driven to bankruptcy.

Edit: I realise that for some reason all the chefs are British and in their 20's and early 30's.... odd.
It seems that for the young cooking is the way to go.

tartanterra

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Not sure what I think about this

We have had several schemes in the last few days announced.. Government back mortgages for FTB etc and now a £1bn scheme to help get young people in to work.

Agreed we need to tackle youth unemployment but will this idea help create sustainable jobs or will employers see it as an opportunity to employ young people with government help on a short term basis at a low cost possibly at the expense of creating sustainable jobs?

A bit like sticking plaster over a gaping wound and not really solving the problems?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/25/nick-clegg-fund-youth-unemployment

Surely we need to be 'investing' in sustainable employment and not short term schemes?

Is this a good use of £1bn (which we are not even clear about where the money is coming from) or could it be better spent in a different way to solve the problem?

As far as I can see, this will just create discrimination
.
In these times of austerity, if an employer can gain "free money" by employing a young person instead of an older one, then they are more than likely going to take it.
It's clearly not going to solve massive unemployment, it's just going to shift jobs from one age group to another.

This may create a few new jobs, but I can't really see much value for money in it, especially for older workers.

yorkshirekev

For my own personal interest, I have talked to a few people about the youth unemployment situation (all outside the affected age group) The majority of people say something along the lines of "Oh that's a shame" then that's it. I genuinely don't think people care as long as their friends and their friend's children are okay.

It leads me to think that nothing will change because it will not affect the politicians. Voters don't really care to any great extent. I speak as someone who only recently left that age and I find it sad. Understandable, but sad nonetheless.

Jimmy_31

heathcote123 wrote: »

I think that depends a lot on the sector, if we're talking mcdonalds probably yes, but if its a skilled job & they become a useful employee, most employers would keep them on.

Recruitment is a headache.

I work in the construction industry and train new apprentice joiners now and again. They are no longer called apprentice joiners as real apprentiships have gone, they are now called interior fitters and only get trained to nvq lvl 2 interior fitting.

Their training consists of going to a course for a few weeks and then being placed with a building firm who then teach them how to do one aspect of joinery. Then an assessor turns up and takes the apprentices photo in front of some work he has done and this gains him his full qualifications. (thats if they are not put on permanent 5hit shifting duty)


It doesnt matter how good they are at the job as they will get laid off when their "apprentiship" is over.

Plenty of people in the construction industry will end up being laid off and be replaced with a young "apprentice".

I already know of a couple of lads who are now refusing to train apprentices as they have watched their workmates get laid off and be replaced with the apprentice they taught. Managing directors of building firms are loving the cheap labour.

I wonder if im going to see exterior fitters with this new government scheme:rotfl:

Going4TheDream

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

I work in the construction industry and train new apprentice joiners now and again. They are no longer called apprentice joiners as real apprentiships have gone, they are now called interior fitters and only get trained to nvq lvl 2 interior fitting.

Their training consists of going to a course for a few weeks and then being placed with a building firm who then teach them how to do one aspect of joinery. Then an assessor turns up and takes the apprentices photo in front of some work he has done and this gains him his full qualifications. (thats if they are not put on permanent 5hit shifting duty)


It doesnt matter how good they are at the job as they will get laid off when their "apprentiship" is over.

Plenty of people in the construction industry will end up being laid off and be replaced with a young "apprentice".

I already know of a couple of lads who are now refusing to train apprentices as they have watched their workmates get laid off and be replaced with the apprentice they taught. Managing directors of building firms are loving the cheap labour.

I wonder if im going to see exterior fitters with this new government scheme:rotfl:

I was speaking to a guy at work and he said his son did one of those type of courses but in plastering. He was offered a job 3 days a week after doing his course 'training' yes training new apprentices how to plaster at a rate of £150 a day.

I found this amazing as unless he is an incredibly talented kid my understanding was that plastering is a hard thing to get right and takes a good deal of skill and experience to perfect.....? Like a lot of things

Its a bit like learning to drive, you pass and have the knowledge and basics but its the practice and doing it over a period of time that gives you the skill and experience.

I'm not sure I would have wanted to be taught to drive by someone who had just passed their test and definatley wouldn't want my house plastered by a newly qualified apprentice trained by another newly qualified novice!

Butterfly_Brain

It is a rehash of YTS and that failed miserably.
They will be exploited, made to work long hours, have no employment rights and will be expected to cover for skilled workers who will then lose their jobs and so the circle continues.

Why take the money from the lowest paid to fund this - take it out of the 12 billion foreign aid package CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!

The trouble in this country is that employers do not pay a decent living wage and so we need tax credits, council tax benefits, housing benefit etc.
While the super rich who's wealth is made by the hard graft of others are laughing their socks off in their tax dodging havens.

Thrugelmir

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Surely we need to be 'investing' in sustainable employment and not short term schemes?

Without gaining experience of the world of work. Becomes a catch 22 situation for youngsters. Those with the right application and attitude will gain something.

Jimmy_31

Going4TheDream wrote: »

I was speaking to a guy at work and he said his son did one of those type of courses but in plastering. He was offered a job 3 days a week after doing his course 'training' yes training new apprentices how to plaster at a rate of £150 a day.

I found this amazing as unless he is an incredibly talented kid my understanding was that plastering is a hard thing to get right and takes a good deal of skill and experience to perfect.....? Like a lot of things

Its a bit like learning to drive, you pass and have the knowledge and basics but its the practice and doing it over a period of time that gives you the skill and experience.

I'm not sure I would have wanted to be taught to drive by someone who had just passed their test and definatley wouldn't want my house plastered by a newly qualified apprentice trained by another newly qualified novice!

Yes you are right, its a skillful job that can take years to master.

The construction industry is going to see a massive shortage of skilled trades in the years to come. The best way to teach an apprentice his trade is to put them to work with an older experienced tradesman (preferably an old timer).

Lots of the old timers are now leaving the building game as the workload has just gotten to a ridiculous level that their bodys cant handle anymore. This will cause a lot of skills to be lost because they taught us but we now have nobody to pass them onto.

Its got to the stage now on site were there just isnt time to teach anybody anything anyway, what usually happens now is the joiners workload is put up by a big chunk and an interior fitter is put with him to labour for him and nothing else.

OptionARMAGEDDON

Best plasterers i contracted couldnt have been over 25. In fact, the guys i hired that i thought would be experienced went over my back boxes with skim, then expected tips. 8 have to say, plasterers despite being hte most highly skilled are the worst paid at an average of 100 a day. Get into HETAS bunch of thieving gyppos, charge a fortune for nothing more difficult than basic DIY.
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