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Please help
Banjaxedbybank
Posts: 4 Newbie
HELP PLEASE!
I am a new member of your site and would like to seek your help / advice regarding a serious problem I am experiencing with my bank – they seem utterly determined to force me to sell my house to pay an outstanding overdraft.
THE BACKGROUND-
I have ran my own small business since 1971 and for all that time have banked with the same high street bank.
In 2000 I asked my then business manager for an overdraft facility. The process could not have been more agreeable! He came to my then office, we sat and chatted for a while - we drunk a bottle of Chablis between us – he said yes Ok, subject only to my agreeing to take out an overdraft protection policy - “I will arrange it when I get back to the office.” And he did. Shortly after I received two copies of an overdraft facilities letter, I was supposed to have signed one and sent it back – but I didn’t!
Every year for the next 8 years exactly the same thing happened, (with different managers) a friendly chat – a bottle of Chablis and – “ I will arrange it when I get back to the office!” I received two copies of their overdraft facilities letter – but didn’t sign one nor send it back – it was never followed up – it just didn’t seem to matter to them. Nor at any time was I asked for security.
The 2008 facility was due to run out on 15th May 2009. I met my new “relationship manager” for the first time on 25th March, (I cannot now remember why so early before May 13th – perhaps he contacted me as a courtesy to introduce himself as my new manager – or – perhaps I needed to increase the OD before May – it had been at £30k from May 2008 and I wanted to ask for it to be increased to £50k.) In any event – the meeting was exactly the same as all the others – chat – vino – £50k OK – will arrange when I get back to the office.
But then it changed!
He returned 5 days later on the 30th March and very apologetically told me that he had been told (presumably by a superior) that he couldn’t do £50k but could only do £40k. I agreed. Some weeks later he contacted ne again to arrange a meeting on 13th May – the very day that the 2008 facility ran out – however before that meeting could take place he put it back to the 18th May because he was unwell. When we met on the 18th May he dropped the bombshell that he could not do £40k after all – nor in fact could he even refresh the £30k – and instead the bank required me to pay back the then outstanding £30k overdraft – immediately!
I could not do that.
Over the next few weeks I tried various ways to raise sufficient funds to enable me to pay off the OD including to remortgage or to convert the OD to a loan. Unfortunately my mortgage is with the same bank and they refused to do either! I asked therefore that the interest be frozen and that he allow me to negotiate an arrangement that would see the OD paid off over time. His advice was that he could not do that – instead he would have to issue a formal demand for payment and then send the case to the “special dept” whose role it was to negotiate a settlement. That eventually happened – and then began the most astonishing, appalling behaviour by that dept, which has been going on for the past 2 years! They either take months to answer letters – or don’t answer them at all – they agree a course of action on the phone – and then renege and deny the arrangement – and they fabricate non existent excuses to justify the denial.
Much else along the way including their admission that their “service has been poor“ and a “concession to remove interest (they had already agreed to do that – because the two year hiatus was of their making not mine) and a reduction of £2000 – but this still left a figure of £28k which I could not pay.
In July 2008 they sent the case to their lawyers – even thou they had said earlier that they wouldn’t. I issued a defence and counterclaim. They have now applied to the court for summary judgment on the grounds that my defence and counter claim have no prospect of success. Attached to that application is a witness statement from the “relationship manager” who first agreed £50k then returned to advise £40k then returned again to advise zero and by the way we want the £30k back now!
In this statement he blatantly lies and says that he, “would not nor could not, have agreed to £50k” without doing what he describes as due diligence – but he did!
The action of the bank has virtually finished of my business, I am now 68 and my wife and I are struggling to survive on a state pension, a private pension of less that £300 per month, (from the same bank’s pension arm) and my wife’s part time earnings. I have no ability to pay the debt – other than to lose our family home.
This is exactly what the bank seems relentlessly determined to achieve!
I have recently seen posts on this site about – Subject access requests and unenforceability.
So my questions are –
1. I guess that the ‘relationship manager will have to have made reports following his meetings with me. Can I request that those reports be revealed to me?
2. If I do will the request go to him? Because if it does I guess he will just deny that they exist!
3. Is an O/D facility a consumer credit agreement and subject to the Consumer Credit Act? If so is this O/D debt ‘unenforceable’ given that I didn’t sign the copy letters?
4. Do you have any other suggestions, help, advice – magic wand – please!
I am a new member of your site and would like to seek your help / advice regarding a serious problem I am experiencing with my bank – they seem utterly determined to force me to sell my house to pay an outstanding overdraft.
THE BACKGROUND-
I have ran my own small business since 1971 and for all that time have banked with the same high street bank.
In 2000 I asked my then business manager for an overdraft facility. The process could not have been more agreeable! He came to my then office, we sat and chatted for a while - we drunk a bottle of Chablis between us – he said yes Ok, subject only to my agreeing to take out an overdraft protection policy - “I will arrange it when I get back to the office.” And he did. Shortly after I received two copies of an overdraft facilities letter, I was supposed to have signed one and sent it back – but I didn’t!
Every year for the next 8 years exactly the same thing happened, (with different managers) a friendly chat – a bottle of Chablis and – “ I will arrange it when I get back to the office!” I received two copies of their overdraft facilities letter – but didn’t sign one nor send it back – it was never followed up – it just didn’t seem to matter to them. Nor at any time was I asked for security.
The 2008 facility was due to run out on 15th May 2009. I met my new “relationship manager” for the first time on 25th March, (I cannot now remember why so early before May 13th – perhaps he contacted me as a courtesy to introduce himself as my new manager – or – perhaps I needed to increase the OD before May – it had been at £30k from May 2008 and I wanted to ask for it to be increased to £50k.) In any event – the meeting was exactly the same as all the others – chat – vino – £50k OK – will arrange when I get back to the office.
But then it changed!
He returned 5 days later on the 30th March and very apologetically told me that he had been told (presumably by a superior) that he couldn’t do £50k but could only do £40k. I agreed. Some weeks later he contacted ne again to arrange a meeting on 13th May – the very day that the 2008 facility ran out – however before that meeting could take place he put it back to the 18th May because he was unwell. When we met on the 18th May he dropped the bombshell that he could not do £40k after all – nor in fact could he even refresh the £30k – and instead the bank required me to pay back the then outstanding £30k overdraft – immediately!
I could not do that.
Over the next few weeks I tried various ways to raise sufficient funds to enable me to pay off the OD including to remortgage or to convert the OD to a loan. Unfortunately my mortgage is with the same bank and they refused to do either! I asked therefore that the interest be frozen and that he allow me to negotiate an arrangement that would see the OD paid off over time. His advice was that he could not do that – instead he would have to issue a formal demand for payment and then send the case to the “special dept” whose role it was to negotiate a settlement. That eventually happened – and then began the most astonishing, appalling behaviour by that dept, which has been going on for the past 2 years! They either take months to answer letters – or don’t answer them at all – they agree a course of action on the phone – and then renege and deny the arrangement – and they fabricate non existent excuses to justify the denial.
Much else along the way including their admission that their “service has been poor“ and a “concession to remove interest (they had already agreed to do that – because the two year hiatus was of their making not mine) and a reduction of £2000 – but this still left a figure of £28k which I could not pay.
In July 2008 they sent the case to their lawyers – even thou they had said earlier that they wouldn’t. I issued a defence and counterclaim. They have now applied to the court for summary judgment on the grounds that my defence and counter claim have no prospect of success. Attached to that application is a witness statement from the “relationship manager” who first agreed £50k then returned to advise £40k then returned again to advise zero and by the way we want the £30k back now!
In this statement he blatantly lies and says that he, “would not nor could not, have agreed to £50k” without doing what he describes as due diligence – but he did!
The action of the bank has virtually finished of my business, I am now 68 and my wife and I are struggling to survive on a state pension, a private pension of less that £300 per month, (from the same bank’s pension arm) and my wife’s part time earnings. I have no ability to pay the debt – other than to lose our family home.
This is exactly what the bank seems relentlessly determined to achieve!
I have recently seen posts on this site about – Subject access requests and unenforceability.
So my questions are –
1. I guess that the ‘relationship manager will have to have made reports following his meetings with me. Can I request that those reports be revealed to me?
2. If I do will the request go to him? Because if it does I guess he will just deny that they exist!
3. Is an O/D facility a consumer credit agreement and subject to the Consumer Credit Act? If so is this O/D debt ‘unenforceable’ given that I didn’t sign the copy letters?
4. Do you have any other suggestions, help, advice – magic wand – please!
0
Comments
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What state is the business in? Is there any possibility to sell it and any attached assets on and pay off the overdraft using this?Saving for our next step up the property ladder0
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as its not a personal account i don't think the cca applies to your overdraft. if the house is morgage free get it transfered to your wife then they can't touch it. they also can't force you to sell if your house is in joint names and the debt is just yours. have a look on the thread about charging orders. make an arrangement that you can keep to and offer them that. if your trying to pay them off if it was to go to court they would look pretty bad.0
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I assume your business is not LTD?Happiness, is a Kebab called Doner.....:heart2::heart2:0
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Allan_r_123 wrote: »What state is the business in? Is there any possibility to sell it and any attached assets on and pay off the overdraft using this?
Moribund at best unfortunately; the banks action pretty much finished it off and while I have / am trying to re-establish, the recent / current climate is not easiest in which to, in effect, start again! Besides, at its best its value consists of my knowledge and experience and I cant think of any way of selling that!0 -
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pauletruth wrote: »as its not a personal account i don't think the cca applies to your overdraft. if the house is morgage free get it transfered to your wife then they can't touch it. they also can't force you to sell if your house is in joint names and the debt is just yours. have a look on the thread about charging orders. make an arrangement that you can keep to and offer them that. if your trying to pay them off if it was to go to court they would look pretty bad.
Sadly it's very much not mortgage free! The mortgage is in joint names and the business account was in my name only. The charging order thread and the difference between orders and restrictions is very interesting and sounds promising in my circumstances - however there's a lot of legalese that i find a bit difficult to understand! It seems concerned about the circumstances where someone wants to sell and not see the proceeds disappear - my situation is that I really really don't want to sell! Does it still apply in this circumstance?0 -
sorry I don't have the expertise to answer this ,however will bump it up in case anyone can help0
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Can you afford a solicitor?, as this is a case where it may be worth having your day in court, rather than letting them get a summary judgement, or judgement by default.Happiness, is a Kebab called Doner.....:heart2::heart2:0
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