Does a verbal agreement count for anything?

Mrs_Imp

It's a slightly complicated situation, so I hope I can get it down clearly.

I am currently on maternity leave. I hope to return in March. I came up with a proposal for part-time working, which included some flexibility for working some hours at home so that I could pick my child up from the nursery on time. My immediate boss is fine with it, as he doesn't want to lose me. My manager was not quite so keen, but verbally agreed a 2 month trial period. So I submitted my proposal in writing and set about finding a nursery.
My manager has since resigned (I wasn't informed of this until i chased thing sup yesterday) without signing the relevant forms and we have a new manager. She doesn't like my proposal, but has done nothing about it until today, more than 3 weeks since they received my proposal. The only reason anything has been done is because I asked my immediate boss about it, as I wanted to book our chosen nursery.

I have been sent an e-mail asking me to call the office to arrange a meeting with them.

Does the verbal agreement count for anything, or am I going to have to lose the nursery place while I renegotiate my return to work?

And do I really want to go back to work for a company that's prepared to treat me like this??!!

Thanks

Acc72

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

And do I really want to go back to work for a company that's prepared to treat me like this??!!

Thanks

Ok, you are clearly annoyed, but you first need to fully understand what is happening.

Your previous manager verbally agreed to a 2 month trial period - what's to say that the new manager won't agree similar when they have heard and fully understood your proposal (you do not say why the new manager doesn't like the proposal, or how this was communicated to you).

Is the new manager new to the department or the company ?

It could be that she wants to fully understand her new role, including who her staff are and what they do etc. before making a final decision.

You need to meet with her, listen to what she has to say and then explain to her your proposal focusing on how this will benefit the company (i.e. her and not just you) and take it from there.

Hopefully your immediate boss is still "fine" with the idea ? - if so, they can support your proposal ?

InsideInsurance

A verbal agreement is as binding as a written agreement the challenge about them is proving what was actually agreed. With the person who said it now being out the picture it can be even harder.

As to the second point, only you can answer that one

Uncertain

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

Does the verbal agreement count for anything, or am I going to have to lose the nursery place while I renegotiate my return to work?

In almost every area of English law (including employment) a verbal agreement is just as valid and binding as a written one.

The problem of course is proving the existence of the agreement which is why getting things in writing makes it so much easier.

Mrs_Imp

Thanks for the information. I'll bear it in mind when I go in for my meeting.
Acc72 - without going in to too much detail (I don't want to be spotted by anyone from work). The 'new' manager already works for the company, so I know her already and thought that we got on ok. She has had a meeting with my immediate boss and said that she doesn't like any of my proposal - the hours, the days, and the flexibility to leave early if I need to, to pick up my child and then catch up with my hours at home etc etc.
That's one of the reasons I'm annoyed - there are many others

SarEl

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

Thanks for the information. I'll bear it in mind when I go in for my meeting.
Acc72 - without going in to too much detail (I don't want to be spotted by anyone from work). The 'new' manager already works for the company, so I know her already and thought that we got on ok. She has had a meeting with my immediate boss and said that she doesn't like any of my proposal - the hours, the days, and the flexibility to leave early if I need to, to pick up my child and then catch up with my hours at home etc etc.
That's one of the reasons I'm annoyed - there are many others

But to play devils advocate - that's an awful lot of flexibility! So I could understand a manager not being entirely happy with an agreement that appears to consist of "I will work these hours and these days, except for when I can't when I will work from home to make it up". This isn't about being "personal" and whether you get on ok - it is about whether your propsosal meets business needs. So you may need to consdier some compromise here.

Mrs_Imp

SarEl, where on earth did I say "I will work these hours and these days, except for when I can't when I will work from home to make it up"

If you look I said that I wanted to have enough flexibility to be able to pick my child up on time and make up any hours I miss as a result, at home. That would mean that if my child was sick and I had to leave work early, or if for any reason the nursery had to close early, then I owuld be able to pick up my child. In my first post I stated that I asked for part-time working. Under the Flexible Working legislation I am allowed to do that. Asking for part-time work is not the same as what you have suggested. It is something I am legally allowed to do And as you will see, I spoke to my immediate boss to ensure that they were happy with it.

bluenoseam

That's a lot of flexibility & variables though, the more IF then the less ability to plan there is, they haven't out-right said no and by the sounds of it are willing to listen to your reasoning and come to a compromise, ultimately you spoke to the previous boss, the playing field has changed. This person may get on well enough with you on a personal level, but this isn't personal dealings, it's business dealings where personal is left at the door.

SarEl

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

SarEl, where on earth did I say "I will work these hours and these days, except for when I can't when I will work from home to make it up"

If you look I said that I wanted to have enough flexibility to be able to pick my child up on time and make up any hours I miss as a result, at home. That would mean that if my child was sick and I had to leave work early, or if for any reason the nursery had to close early, then I owuld be able to pick up my child. In my first post I stated that I asked for part-time working. Under the Flexible Working legislation I am allowed to do that. Asking for part-time work is not the same as what you have suggested. It is something I am legally allowed to do And as you will see, I spoke to my immediate boss to ensure that they were happy with it.

I am not arguing against you - I am pointing out some practicalities. Because yes, you have the right to ask, but you don't have the right to get. You said that the manager was unhappy with the request because of "the hours, the days, and the flexibility to leave early if I need to, to pick up my child and then catch up with my hours at home etc etc" And in your first post you said that you wanted the flexibility to work from kome to pick up your child from nursery on time - that is not the same thing as occasionally having to pick up a sick child, which is not flexible working policy - that is about an occasional emergency situation which cannot be planned for.

If it isn't clear here what you are askiing for (and it isn't) then perhaps it also isn't clear to the manager. I read this as asking to be able to work hours when it best suits you on a regular basis - that isn't flexible working, which is a variation of the hours you are contracted to work, but a variation which is about fixed hours. So you might reduce from 9 - 5 to 9 - 2:30 for example, but those are then the hours that you work. Occasional requirements to cope with a sick child are about dependants leave - not flexible working. You seem to be asking for several things at once here, and that may be at the root of the managers issues.

Annisele

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

SarEl, where on earth did I say "I will work these hours and these days, except for when I can't when I will work from home to make it up"

I read your request the exact same way SarEl did. In essence, it looks as though you want to work exactly when you want to work - and if those hours can't be done in the office, you'll happily make them up at home.

If your employer also reads it that way, then so far as they know you'll never be in the office at all. So, even if they're broadly supportive of your plan, you have a lot of reassuring to do - and a meeting sounds very reasonable.

Mrs_Imp

The root of the problem here is the 'new' managers desire to 'come in and make changes'
It was all agreed with the old manager, and in fact the old manager hasn't yet left, but the 'new' manager has wedged her oar in to the problem and insisted on getting involved.
I have already made a huge compromise regarding the days I will be going back, which they are all aware of.
I'm not asking for the moon on a stick, I'm just asking for them to treat me like all the other women who have returned from maternity leave, as I'm not asking for any more than what they have asked for Currently that is not the case.