Worried sick about appearing in court.

geoffky

Chrisblue1962 wrote: »

Hi Lancashiregirl

Please please don't be too worried about a Redetermination hearing as I had mine just this week. It will be held in a Judge's chambers (basically an office) and he / she will not be "robed" i.e. in gown and wig. Mine only took ten minutes and the judge was really nice (they are human too !!!) and explained everything.

Sadly, my result was that I'll probably have a Charging Order soon as my debt , circa £3,000, my debt will take 19 years to be repaid at current rate (about £12.00 per month on DMP) so Judge thought this was too long. The original CCJ judgement is going to be amended to a Forthwith Judgement so a Charging Order can go ahead BUT Judge insisted they (Nationwide) cannot enforce the Charging Order at all without referring back to the Court and must allow me to repay the debt by monthly repayments.

Basically, creditors only want a Charging Order as security NOT as a means of collecting the debt....

However, I'm confident that I'll be able to settle the CCJ through both my monthly DMP payments and I'll be saving like mad so that I'll be to settle the CCJ before the CCJ requires renewal in 5 and a half years.

Very Good Luck and.... don't worry !!!!!

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I hear what you say chris but is it not the fact that they seem to be cracking a nut with a sledgehammer and hence why for such small amounts these charging orders should at all times be resisted?

Chrisblue1962

I totally agree geoffkky!...

I think Nationwide had a cheek even going for a CCJ but they did and they got it and it seems an increasing legal remedy that Nationwide are using and relish the fact.

I think some of the blame lies with the Judicary who seem quite happy to issue CCJs despite the fact that debtors are making "best efforts" through DMPs to face up to their debt. Unfortunately, financial institutions "want to have their cake, your cake and eat the whole lot!!"

Sparklyfairy

fatbelly wrote: »

Interesting case...

http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/news-detail.php?id=23

Grrr. Not surprised in the LEAST it was with MBNA...vile company!:mad:

lancashiregirl

An update on my situation:
I have received a notice that the application for the charging order will take place on March 5th at my local county court and a judge will decide whether the charge created by this order should continue or should be discharged.
Am I required to attend this do you know? It doesn't say on the Interim Charging Order.

Savvy_Money

First of all I am sorry that you have been through the trauma of a court hearing. As someone who has seen the inside of a court many times (in a professional capacity) they can be intimidating places- more so the solicitors representing the creditors etc...

Having said that whilst it will seem unfair that your creditor wants a charging order on what appears to be a small amount of money, it is an option available to them. The Judge has to make a decision that is fair to both parties, and often will make a charging order on the basis of allowing the creditor a certain guarantee that they will receive the moneys owed. A previous poster wrote that creditors do not owe you as a person, but they do own your debt.

The biggest tragedy though is that you seem really determined to sort out all your debts and I agree with all the other posters in the surprise that one of your creditors did not accept your DMP. Whilst ultimately we are responisible for our debts, these companies are happy to offer silly amounts of credit whilst the good times flow, to become totally unreasonable when they themselves are struggling due to reckless lending.

Do not worry about losing your house at this stage - I really think with the little amount owed, and with a DMP in place it would take a completely heartless judge to force a sale of your property to settle your debts (though please remember this is an option available to them under English Law) - I'm not trying to frighten you but it can happen - the lilelihood of it actually happening is very very slim.

I really hope it goes well for you. Debt has such a habit of creeping up on all of us - I was once £35,000 in debt but I have now cleared these debts by living very frugally - but it took me a very long long time) Well done to you for facing those debts and taking the journey to becoming debt free (and you will be debt free!)

Chrisblue1962

Thanks Savvy Money for your useful and supportive post.

Being taken to court over a debt was not nice and mortifying for me but I know I'll be able to have the strength to sort out my debts in time.

fatbelly

fatbelly wrote: »

When you get confirmation of the judge's order can you post the wording here. I've got two lines of thought - has he actually varied the existing order? And if he has, can we persuade the creditor not to go for a Charging Order.

The fact that they asked for costs when THEY applied for a redetermination leads me to think they don't know what they're doing (and maybe the judge didn't either)

lancashiregirl wrote: »

An update on my situation:
I have received a notice that the application for the charging order will take place on March 5th at my local county court and a judge will decide whether the charge created by this order should continue or should be discharged.
Am I required to attend this do you know? It doesn't say on the Interim Charging Order.

You should definitely go. You know the place now so it shouldn't be so daunting.

Did the judge actually change the order from 'pay in instalments of £X per month' to 'pay forthwith'?

Have you defaulted on the original order, i.e. have you missed a payment? If 'no' and 'no' then the judge should not be making a Charging Order final and you may need support from someone.

From:

Factsheet | Charging orders in the county court

I already have an instalment order and am not behind with it

If you have kept up with instalments on a county court judgment then the court should not make a final charging order. According to a case called Mercantile Credit Co Ltd v Ellis in 1987, a charging order should only be made if the payments on a judgment are in arrears or you were ordered to pay the judgment in one lump sum immediately (forthwith) and didn't pay. This case is very important. If you are in this situation and still have an interim charging order made, you must go to the hearing and take evidence that you have kept up with the instalments ordered and mention this case to the district judge.

There does seem a move towards judges ignoring this principle but it doesn't make it right or fair.

lancashiregirl

The exact wording:

On 5 January 2012 Deputy District Judge Lewis considererd the application of the claimant (the judgement creditor) from whcih it appears:

a) a judgement or order given on 2 November 2011 by the Northampton (CCBC) County Court in claim no. xxxxx ordered the defendant (the judgement debtor) to pay money to the judgment creditor;

b) the amount now owing under the judgment or order is £7,255.79 (including any interest and costs);and

c) the judgement debtor is the owner of, or has beneficial interest in the asset described in the schedule below;

and the court orders that
1. The interest of the judgment debtor Miss xxxx in the asset described in the schedule below stand charged with payment of £7255.79 together with any further intrerest becoming due and the costs of the application.

2. The application will be heard at 2pm on 5 March 2012 at xxxx court when a judge will decided whether the charge created by this order should continue (with or without modification) or should be discharged.

The address of the land of property charged is xxxx
The judgement creditor shall serve CPR 73.5 - the judgement debtor and creditores and co-owner.



Hopefully that clarifies my situation and thank you very much for your help so far.

I presume this means I need to go and prove I have kept up with my payments then?

lancashiregirl

I should perhaps add that I am paying only £66.56 per month at the moment, so I am not very hopeful that the order won't be granted.

lancashiregirl

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