Employer asking for birth cert

DVardysShadow

LadyMissA wrote: »

then when you have an inspection how do you prove all the staff are legal? And are you saying I can refuse for the job centre, agency and employer to take a copy of my passport?

An employer can prove it by checking that employees have valid documents. And they should keep a record of having checked. The record does not have to be a copy of the document. You can certainly refuse anyone a copy of your documents if they don't have the legal right to a copy. And I have yet to see proof that they have a legal right

Hammyman wrote: »

The employer is required to provide proof they have complied with employment legislation in regards to ascertaining the right to work in the UK. The only way they can do that is by producing copies of the proof given.

Border Agency can walk into any employer at any time and demand to see proof. With the penalty for not complying being up to £10,000 PER ILLEGAL WORKER, you can bet your a$$ they'll want to keep a copy. And for me it would be simple - if an applicant wouldn't let me, they'd not get the job or they'd get shown the door if they'd already started.

You have fallen into the fallacy of 'some men are greeks, therefore all men are greeks'. While copies of documents demonstrates compliance with the law to check employment rights, it is not the only evidence of compliance. In fact, as employers don't actually have the right to a copy of the documents - only the duty to inspect, they will not always be able to produce documents.

partysis81

wow thanks for all the replies!! you've helped to put my mind at rest
He works for a private company, who in the past have made some strange decisions and staff have had to contact ACAS for help, who proved the company wrong, so thats why i wanted to put the feelers out on this matter.
He only has an expired passport so it will have to be his birth cert, but they've said the member of staff goes to the photocopier with them and the original will never go out of their sight.
He's worked for them for over 10 years and this is the first time any of them have been asked!
Funnily enough, i worked for a part of local government up until last year, and did so for 11 years, and i never had to provide such proof of identity??!! Then again, theyre always the last employers to do things lol

Gothicfairy

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Not very efficient are they? They should have gathered all of this information and taken copies of the documents at the interview stage. Having the documents on file has been a legal requirement for over a decade. One wonders what else they have overlooked.

To be fair you don't know how long the op's husband has worked for the same company.
My husband has worked for the same place for over 8 years now and every other year they ask for the documents so that they can update on mass the main system.
I also know many other people who have to do this every now and again with other companies..I myself had to do it with any change, ie business insurance on my car changed companies and that was done with passport as back up ID

SHIPSHAPE

Nobody other than certain authorities, such as the police, customs etc, has the right to demand access to your passport.

The UK has no law regarding id cards and passports, birth certificates etc are not substitutes for what is not a legal requirement.

Tell your employer to get lost.

liney

If your employer only took copies of elegibility to work documents for foriegn nations they could easily be found guilty of racial discrimination, for which the compensation has no upper limit.

This is why it is standard, and recommended by the Home Office, to obtain these documents for all employees.

SHIPSHAPE

liney wrote: »

If your employer only took copies of elegibility to work documents for foriegn nations they could easily be found guilty of racial discrimination, for which the compensation has no upper limit.

This is why it is standard, and recommended by the Home Office, to obtain these documents for all employees.

It is not the law though.

If I refuse to provide id to an employer, when there are no laws on even having to have any id in any case in the UK, then that is the employers problem, not mine.

Again, tell them to get lost.

liney

The onus is on the employee to prove they are elegible to work in the UK. This is normally done at the point of application, and the employer is gung-ho to go ahead and employ without first checking; what if they now discover an illegal?

What do you think could happen to an employee who refuses to prove their elegibility to work in the UK?

SHIPSHAPE

liney wrote: »

The onus is on the employee to prove they are elegible to work in the UK. This is normally done at the point of application, and the employer is gung-ho to go ahead and employ without first checking; what if they now discover an illegal?

Oh really? Could you post up the legislation that requires me, a Briton, to do this?

liney

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

Oh really? Could you post up the legislation that requires me, a Briton, to do this?

You can't just not ask people who say they are British, or look British, or sound British; well you can but if you don't want to pay an enormous fine you really shouldn't: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/employersandsponsors/preventingillegalworking/currentguidanceandcodes/comprehensiveguidancefeb08.pdf?view=Binary See page 11 - How to avoid Racial Discrimination.

The legislation requires the employer to make the checks to provide a 'defense' against the employment of an illegal - ie the documents were taken but they were a forgery. The legislation gives the employer the method of checking in order to avoid racial discrimination and an unlimited fine.

saintjammyswine

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

It is not the law though.

If I refuse to provide id to an employer, when there are no laws on even having to have any id in any case in the UK, then that is the employers problem, not mine.

Again, tell them to get lost.

I can think of their reply and it would be along the same lines to you if you did that.

Any employer can be visited at any time by UKBA to ensure all staff have the right to work in the UK.
If they cannot prove your right to work then then they may get a fine of £10k per person (company is liable) or as a recruitment agency then it is up to £5k per person (the person signing you up to the agency is liable personally).
No right thinking employer will take this chance and so will ask for proof of your right to work in the UK, for example, Passport, NI no. etc.