Resigned - Employer Now Refusing To Allow Me To Take Any Leave Due

November5th

Acc72 wrote: »

I am sure your employer could argue that you are being equally unreasonable.

Just a comment about the reference - what is your employers policy ? (eg. are all references issued by HR ?).

Also, bear in mind that if your manager issues a reference on letter headed paper on behalf of the company then it must be factually correct. If he is contacted as a personal / character reference then it is slightly different.

Also, remember that your manager may not provide the reference that you want, and also he might leave the company in the near future and you will still need to contact HR.

The best way forward would be to calmly negotiate an early release - by you explaining that all your work is up to date etc. etc. and leave on a positive note.

This would be ideal, but it just seems that HR go on the defensive with everyone right away. I offered to work part time throughout December to ensure that everything was covered - something my new employers were flexible with (a better corporate )
They just haven't bothered to listen, so rather than a smooth happy transition, I actually have no reason to show up on Monday do I? They are going to do whatever they do anyway.

Mistral001

The OP has been told the position here by several people that she will be in breach of contract if she does what she plans to do. It is really a case of whether the employer will sue for breach of contract as far as I can see. That one is for the OP to call. Seems to be a big risk to take just for the sake of a week's holiday.

Uncertain

November5th wrote: »

If they take this to a tribunal do you think they can prove that they acted reasonably?

They can't take it to a tribunal.

IF they were to sue for breach of contract they would have to do this through the courts.

As I indicated I think the risk of them doing this is small as they will struggle to prove a significant unavoidable loss.

However, at the end of the day nobody on here can give you any guarantee.

If you are going to leave a week early I would make sure you give them written notice of this and be able to prove they have received it. The more notice they have the harder it will be for them to argue any unavoidable loss.

November5th

Mistral001 wrote: »

The OP has been told the position here by several people that she will be in breach of contract if she does what she plans to do. It is really a case of whether the employer will sue for breach of contract as far as I can see. That one is for the OP to call. Seems to be a big risk to take just for the sake of a week's holiday.

My new job starts one week before my old one ends - it's just the way it is - so my new employers are flexible and offered me part time for the first few weeks, my ex-employers won't have it. So it isn't about holiday - but a couple of days!! They have refused to even negotiate and now are bizarrely withholding confirmation of my due leave and start and end dates!

magenta22

As your new employer is being quite flexible, could you not explain to them about your current company and ask if they could put your start date back a couple of days?

Acc72

November5th wrote: »

I actually have no reason to show up on Monday do I?

Other than your contractual obligation you mean ?

What if an employer asked an employee to leave immediately and not be paid their notice period ?

Would this be fair if the employee needed to work (earn) money before starting their new job 4 weeks later ?

Just playing devils advocate.

Mistral001

Uncertain wrote: »

They can't take it to a tribunal.

IF they were to sue for breach of contract they would have to do this through the courts.

As I indicated I think the risk of them doing this is small as they will struggle to prove a significant unavoidable loss.

.

There was a case a few months ago where an employer threatened to sue over someone who left early against employer's wishes. The general advice here was, if I remember, they are bluffing and would not sue over a matter of a few pound. Guess what? They sued.

The OP obviously gave her new employer assurances about what date she could start work, without knowing the situation regarding taking holidays as part of notice. This is unfortunate, but ignorance is no defense as they say. The employers can enforce the letter of the contract as far as I can see. The condition is in most terms and conditions of employment, so it cannot be considered an unreasonable clause. Enforcing the condition, will depend on the employer and the situation. But I do not think an employer has to be mean and nasty to do enforce it. It might be just businesslike to to do it - especially in these tough times.

Uncertain

Mistral001 wrote: »

There was a case a few months ago where an employer threatened to sue over someone who left early against employer's wishes. The general advice here was, if I remember, they are bluffing and would not sue over a matter of a few pound. Guess what? They sued.

Yes there was which is why I said in my other post that nobody could give the OP a guarantee.

That thread has gone very quite but IIRC it was something of a maverick employer and there were a whole number of issues where the ex employee had possible claims against the employer. Provided the employee kept their head it was very unlikely to get anywhere.

There are one or two people on here who just love to overstate the chances of an employee being sued for failing to work their full notice or give a very misleading idea of what the employer may be able to claim. I have never, ever said it can't happen. It does - occasionally. In a few, rare cases the amount involved could be considerable but this is normally when an employee in a fairly unique position walks out with no notice at all.

You can only sue for your provable losses which you have a legal duty to mitigate as far as possible. A civil court cannot impose a penalty. In the vast majority of cases if an employee who was supposed to give say three months notice actually gives two the employer will have to come up with some pretty compelling reason why their losses exceed the saving on that person wages.

Hammyman

November5th wrote: »

References are not an issue, if they have their jackboots on when I have done nothing wrong, it wont be HR that is contacted for references, rather my manager! My manager is great, but powerless when it comes to this insane law unto themselves department!

What scares me is how inhuman it is, and how people cow tow to it. Grow a pair.

Company policy may not permit the manager to give a reference...

Catherine_Johnson_2

magenta22 wrote: »

As your new employer is being quite flexible, could you not explain to them about your current company and ask if they could put your start date back a couple of days?

Which would be the obvious thing to do in the circumstances. Why arrange to start a new job before you finish your current one? Or why not ask about the holiday leave situation before you agree a start date with the new company?

Unfortunately, none of this is what the OP wants to hear. The word 'unreasonable' has been written several times by the OP in reference to the OP's company. He/she doesn't seem to understand that is actually he/she who is being unreasonable.