What are the Greek Austerity measures?

ILW

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

...what's your point?

The borrower and lender are equally at fault.

Ilya_Ilyich

At fault for what? The economic difficulties in Britain and necessary bank bailouts for example were certainly caused by irresponsible lending from our banks.

2sides2everystory

I think there were more than a simple lender and borrower involved, IMHO.

There was for example a certain Goldman Sachs who came along at a one juncture and did a fine consolidation job, time and distance and all, backed by certain other people who were urging that it was a good idea to have Greece in the Euro, and then didn't some others make money on the side by betting against the consolidated Greek Debt?

In fact doesn't this kind of thing happen by design?

You do realise that a whole herd of bankers really ought to have been rounded up and locked up by now, ILW?

nightwatchman

ILW wrote: »

My point was that the Greek people are rioting about having to cut certain things to levels which most of Europe have been putting up with for years.

They seem to believe they have a right to a standard of living way above what they can afford and expect others to pay for it.

Correction

The Greek civil servants (a huge amout of the population) are the ones that rioting.
Their average wage is about 100% higher compared to the privet sector and they have a job for life doing little to justify their wage.
Also their jobs are guaranteed by law, honest I dont making this up, they can not be sacked no matter what.

Regarding the welfare of the rest:

Unemployment benefits entitlement for only 6 months if you have been employed for the previous 2 years.
Child benefit is practically non existent (about £150 per year for a family with 3 children).
Housing benefit…… what is that? Is not existing.
Tax credits……. same as above.
Winter fuel.... same as above.
Free legal suport....... same as above.
Shiney new car every 3 years motability allowance.... you having a laugh.
If you are on working age you are entitled to free healthcare only as long as you are employed, and for an extra year ending on the anniversary of day you become unemployed.
Pensioners are entitled to pension and healthcare only if they had national insurance contributions of at list 20 years.

Even asylum seekers there, are breaking their necks trying to jump to the next lorry to Italy.

I am not surprised that the rest of the population do whatever they can so as not to pay tax.

I wouldn’t like to pay tax either if I had a blood sucking underclass that lives the high life on my expense without have to do any work…… uhhh hold on……

Ilya_Ilyich

nightwatchman wrote: »

Their average wage is about 100% higher compared to the privet sector and they have a job for life doing little to justify their wage.
Also their jobs are guaranteed by law, honest I dont making this up, they can not be sacked no matter what.

Got a source for this?

Joe_Bloggs

The Greek parliament is one member away from being in No Overall Control. It is pointless for them to continue in this mode until there is a change. The main opposition are unlikely to gain a majority if there was an election. A National coalition is one way forward.

The young and mobile will vote with their feet.
J_B.

nightwatchman

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

Got a source for this?

Source posted by Trugelmir (post no 42)

http://www.greekdefaultwatch.com/2011/08/ten-surprising-facts-about-greek.html

Fact #5. Employees in state-owned enterprises (SOEs) earn twice as much as employees in the private sector. One of the recurring themes in Greece’s political economy is the dichotomy between an insulated and well-paid public sector and a low-paid (at least for employees) private sector. According to data released by the ministry of finance, employees at SOEs earned, on average, €38,287 in 2008 – which is twice as high as the €19,147 earned in the private sector. For some SOEs, the gap was much higher.

Ilya_Ilyich

You're using figures that apply to 0.5% of the employed population to make a generalisation about the Greek public sector?

nightwatchman

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

You're using figures that apply to 0.5% of the employed population to make a generalisation about the Greek public sector?

Please read the last paragraph

Usefully the Ministry of Finance has also published the distribution of earnings. In a sample that covers around 70% of all employees, 10% earned over €48,000 while 17% earned from €39,000 to €48,000. Following that is the majority of the employees – 66% – from €19,000 to €39,000. So 93% of SOE employees earn more than the average private sector salary. Add to that the effective lifelong tenure (at least until recent legislation) of these employees, and these numbers are clearly unsustainable, especially given the poor state of services for the bulk of these SOEs.

From there use the "distribution of earnings" link to go to the Greek Finance Ministery presentation.
Unfortunately it’s all in Greek so you will have to use Google translator.
Go on page 5 and copy paste the kebab letters to the translator.
There you will see that the public sector average wage is 40,772 euro without taking in to account any other benefits……( Google translates the “πλην εργοδοηικών ειζθορών και λοιπών παροχών” as “apart than employer contributions and other benefits”)
So that’s about £37,000 net take home pay..…

My understanding of Greek is not what was used to be, so forgive me for any mistakes… but I remember well that Greeks when asked was mentioning only the net take home pay.

Now £37k wage is good for Greece.

It’s good for here also, a £37k net take home is something like £48-50k gross… right?

I had lived there and I still have friends and relatives living there.
As far as I remember all Greeks would kill to be employed by the public sector because the perks are so good.

It’s anecdotal I know….. but I remember of a fire-fighter that was retired at age 40.

I will try to dig out some more data…. but it will take me time.

Ilya_Ilyich

I'll try to find a translation for that second link. I was going by your original source which makes clear it's referring only to state-owned enterprises, which (it says) encompass approximately 0.5% of the employed population in Greece and thus obviously isn't representative of the Greek public sector as a whole.

e: Even in your above post you're quoting SoE figures and confusing them with general public sector figures.