Is it just me, or do you feel aggrieved too?

brianrhill

property.advert wrote: »

I think percentages worry people because they just don't see why someone should be remunerated that way. I mean, barring ripping you off, your plumber charges the guy in the million pound house the same as the ex council house owner.

Now I appreciate investing a million requires more time than investing 50k but not 20 times as much. Nor does it require 20 times as much knowledge or intelligence.

Also, my plumber doesn't come back every year and tag on another cost.

The move to fees from ridiculously high commissions is good but the average customer just doesn't see why it costs so much as it does, until they see the IFA in a new Merc !

Actually, quite a number of business use the percentage model and in fact the FSA is currently considering charging IFA's on that basis right now. Accountants, estate agents, recruitment agencies etc etc.

Additionally, from an IFA's perspective an upheld complaint for a £100,000 investment is going to hurt alot more than a £10,000 investment.

We find the 'project fee' approach is fair and transparent, but in some circumstances clients can pay an hourly rate.

And posters banging on about 'new mercs' should, TBH, get real and stop being offensive please.

gadgetmind

brianrhill wrote: »

Actually, quite a number of business use the percentage model and in fact the FSA is currently considering charging IFA's on that basis right now. Accountants, estate agents, recruitment agencies etc etc.

I've never paid an accountant on a percentage and never will. Estate agents and recruitment agencies are percentage grabbing middle-men who provide close to zero value-add, but if you want use them as an exemplar, then so be it!

And posters banging on about 'new mercs' should, TBH, get real and stop being offensive please.

Well, quite, no taste. Based on observation, Maseratis seem to be popular in the investment industry right now, mostly new, but I've also seen a couple of fully restored classic examples. Of course, back when I started with my pensions and investments, it was wall-to-wall with Lamborghinis. How things change!

Linton

gadgetmind wrote: »

I've never paid an accountant on a percentage and never will. Estate agents and recruitment agencies are percentage grabbing middle-men who provide close to zero value-add, but if you want use them as an exemplar, then so be it!



Well, quite, no taste. Based on observation, Maseratis seem to be popular in the investment industry right now, mostly new, but I've also seen a couple of fully restored classic examples. Of course, back when I started with my pensions and investments, it was wall-to-wall with Lamborghinis. How things change!

Is this a helpful contribution to any discussion?

People come on this forum with real problems and questions about pensions. There are people around who can help, possibly with quite different or even opposing advice. To use the forum for destructive axe-grinding is totally counter productive and will frighten away those people who most need assistance.

gadgetmind

Linton wrote: »

People come on this forum with real problems and questions about pensions.

Yes, and I think they tend to get good advice, on the whole. However, glance upwards at the subject of this thread and you'll see that axe-grinding, while it might not be helpful, is at least on topic.

brianrhill

We have found that the working on 'unbundling' our work for clients works very well:

1. Advice Stage: This stage goes through from fact find to Recommendations Report, aligned with client goals. There is no requirement for the client to go to the next stage or to use us for the next stage/s or to go the next stage at all if they choose not to. In fact, in some instances, there may be a recommendation to do nothing.

2. Implementation Stage: This stage is where some or all of the parts of recommendations made are implemented. This can be done by us, another suitably qualified and experienced IFA, or by the client themselves.

3. Servicing: This stage is where we provide an ongoing service for the associated recommendations, which will usually include regular reviews of a frequency somewhere between 3 and 36 months

In this way, clients do not feel pressurised that we are trying to 'sell them' a product, and they can choose to DIY the bits they want to. We find in the majority of cases that clients want us to do all 3, once we have completed stage 1 for them.

All stages are priced on a project fee basis which includes: time required, expertise required, speed required, level of contact client expects, and risk involved. There are a couple of caveats, which can include, for instance, if a client with a family refuses to carry appropriate life cover in place and does not have suitable net worth, we will not deal with them.

I would also say that, as a professional adviser, if I were to use the tools/calculators that are freely available on the internet (HL, Cavendish, MAS), I would be hung out to dry by my compliance people. We use tools which are not available to the general public, and in fact many IFAs can't afford them.

Many amateur investors think they have a good understanding of finance, and sometimes they do an okay job on the basics. However, when you see, as per a previous post, someone 'just finding out' about Pension Input Periods (which is fairly basic stuff) and then expecting their accountant to know about this (very few seem to know about pensions full stop let alone PiPs) then I worry for anyone taking that poster's advice.

The knowledge built up over the years of 'how things work' does not come from my own finances, reading some books, and not even from qualifications, although they provide a good grounding. It's from working on case after case after case. You can't get that experience online, and an amateur investor who thinks that reading a few books and getting some decent returns on their own finances makes them suitable to dish out advice as if they know that they are doing, is fooling themselves, and I would add that they're probably one of the biggest dangers (outside of banks) to Joe Public.

gadgetmind

brianrhill wrote: »

someone 'just finding out' about Pension Input Periods (which is fairly basic stuff) and then expecting their accountant to know about this (very few seem to know about pensions full stop let alone PiPs)

Well, as this was an example of my limits and fallibility that I raised myself, I guess I'll have to take it on the chin. However, it's perhaps worth pointing out that the troublesome pension with the zany PIP *was* set up by a professional pensions consultant (big company, triple barreled name), and I found out about the issue via a chance comment in a face-to-face meeting with them.

With accountants and pensions consultants on the job, I did feel that having to research it and work it all out myself was like having a dog and wagging the tail yourself, but that's the way life works sometimes.

atush

Susievintage wrote: »

As a child (35 years ago) I was taught to save, to put money aside for a rainy day to ensure that you can always take care of yourself and are never a burden on anyone else. A chaotic family life and bitter parental divorce brought out the natural squirrel in me, and I still save like a demon. I've paid off my mortgage, and put money into a pension each month.

But now I feel like a fool. With piddling interest rates, my savings are losing value by the minute. My pension contributions ensure that fund managers and my own IFA get a new Mercedes at least once a year, while I drive a 25-year old car. And we all know there'll be nothing left in the state pension pot in about a decade's time.

So what I should have done is spend, spend, spend! Why did no-one recommend this?

Susie, no one recommended this because it is a stupid and childish course of action. you may think you'll be better off in council housing and on benefit but don't you beleive it.

You own a house (which you can downsize from after retirment and release equity) and will get a pension, plus the state pension which WILL STILL BE there in 10 years for you. It will be, because to make it so we are all working longer. And you could have replaced your car when the govt had the scrappage scheme going and recieved money for it.

As for your IFA and fund managers, I suggest you are not being a moneysaving expert in that there are ways and means to cut out those commissions you are paying, or at least reduce them.

I would not be looking over the fence at the numpties next door, but thinking how wise you have been in saving when everyone else was spending what they did not have.

As for saving, apy attention to NSI and buy some ILSCs when they are released again. And invest in equities thru an investment trust savings plan. Both of these will give you returns over inflation in the long run.

gadgetmind

atush wrote: »

And invest in equities thru an investment trust savings plan.

There are a lot of well run investment trusts, but I personally don't trust any of them enough to put everything with just one.

atush

True, but I advise to start with one and branch out lol.

brianrhill

gadgetmind wrote: »

Well, as this was an example of my limits and fallibility that I raised myself, I guess I'll have to take it on the chin. However, it's perhaps worth pointing out that the troublesome pension with the zany PIP *was* set up by a professional pensions consultant (big company, triple barreled name), and I found out about the issue via a chance comment in a face-to-face meeting with them.

With accountants and pensions consultants on the job, I did feel that having to research it and work it all out myself was like having a dog and wagging the tail yourself, but that's the way life works sometimes.

One of my frustrations and yours too by the sounds of it, gadgetmind, was dealing with accountants who were basically there for compliance - try and get them to actively help save tax, grow the business etc was like knocking your head against a brick wall!

As such, we became an accountancy as well as an IFA practice with a CIMA on board. When we do client plans both the IFA and the accountant are involved. If a client's accountant doesn't play ball, then we often find that clients move both the IFA and accountancy side to us.