Aspiration & ambition

PasturesNew

crash123 wrote: »

Me and my partner earn a lot more but we can live off the minimum wage, it just takes a bit of skill. Making meals from scratch etc. shopping around for good quality at a reasonable price. You don`t have to have the latest i-phone etc.

Magic word there "we". Not everybody's a smug "we"

Kennyboy66

Wookster wrote: »

Thought it was quite interesting and even though I felt some of the people being shadowed didn't really help themselves I thought all of them had some gumption and drive, particularly the Polish rickshaw rider. Good luck to him!

Is it just me or is that I'll just do what needs to be done to get through while I seek to better myself attitude missing in the UK today?

I'll give you a clue.

It doesn't matter where in the world you go, but immigrants have, on average, more drive and ambition.

It has always been thus, and always will be.

paulmapp8306

crash123 wrote: »

Me and my partner earn a lot more but we can live off the minimum wage, it just takes a bit of skill. Making meals from scratch etc. shopping around for good quality at a reasonable price. You don`t have to have the latest i-phone etc.

I dont see how a family could live of one minimum wage earner (as you may have to if you have small kids). its hard enough on two minimum wages with kids.

What MAKES it possible is state help really.

Minimum wage at £6.06 per hour - 37.5 hours per week = £227.25 per week, averaged out = £994.75 per month before tax !!

After tax that works out a £872.79 per month after tax.

If you find somewhere to live, pay utilities, food, cloths, transport etc for a family of 4 (average family size) on that then I applaud you.

if both parents can work full time (and can get the jobs) then its do-able at £1700+ per month but not everyone can do so. My wife for instance has to work around the kids schoole, meaning she can only really work 15hrs/week and weekends (which she cant in her current job - its Mon-Fri), and she has to find employers that will let her do so.

If it wasnt for Child Tax/Working Tax credits, housing benefit (for those renting), Child Benefit, Council Tax relief etc then it wouldnt be possible on one wage.

paulmapp8306

Oh - forgot childcare

If both parents are going to work you need childcare, which costs more than you eanr on min wage, and why some mums cant work.

There is childcare help BUT thats state aide again, and you have to work 15hr+ to get it. You cant work 12hrs to get a little income.

The thing with minimum wage, is for the system to REALLY work it needs to be set at a level that you can live on it WITHOUT any government help.

so - whats the cheapest a single person can find housing, plus bills, plus food, plus clothes, plus transport to work (be it train, car, bus or bycycle). Add tax to that, divide by 37.5.

Whats the cheapest a couple with a small child can live? include the costs for childcare (assuming both parents are going to work) OR no childcare costs but only one parent working. same calculation as for a single person.

Noe - whichever is the highest of those 3 senarios is a reasonable definition of what Minimum wage should be as everyone in any position could live (no good taking the single persons figure if the couple couldnt live on it).

I would suggest that the "figure" you arrive at is higher than the current level.

Going4TheDream

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

The thing with minimum wage, is for the system to REALLY work it needs to be set at a level that you can live on it WITHOUT any government help.

I feel that way too. Take Tesco for example, making what £1.9b profit or thereabouts.

I wonder how much of that is made on the back of the government topping up 'wages' through benefits and tax credits etc due to the lower salaries that are paid to probably 90% of the staff.

In a way its no different than supporting the banks, we still pay, just through the back door this way.

And we think of Tesco as a great British success in business terms.

RenovationMan

shortchanged wrote: »

I think the problem with that philosophy RenoMan is who picks up the tab when the risk goes pear shaped?

For example who helped out the banks when they got a little (cough, cough) carried away. Yes the taxpayers.

What would have happened if your gamble went the wrong way??

I'm not sure that you mean by going the wrong way. If you mean that interest rates rose instead of fell then I would have paid more each month for my mortgage. If you mean if I had lost my job then I would have used my redundancy, savings and redundancy protection insurance to cover me until I found another one.

shortchanged wrote: »

Would you have had mortgage interest support for example? Who pays for that?

I think the MI Support only covers a certain amount and is avaiable for all mortgage holders, not just those who did an interest rate gamble. If I did require assistance then I think my more than 20 years as a tax payer would cover me for a little corner of the benefit safety net for a while.

Thrugelmir

RenovationMan wrote: »

whereas in the US it's generally the opposite.

Appears not.

How the 1% got richer, while the 99% got poorer
It's official: wealth inequality accelerated over the past quarter century. The American dream was never a more hollow promise

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/26/how-1-got-richer-99-poorer

RenovationMan

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Appears not.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/26/how-1-got-richer-99-poorer

Eh? I'm not sure how your remark fits with what I said, probably that's why you cut it down? Well two can play at that game.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Appears

TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disappear

pqrdef

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The reason people arent motivated to do minimun wage jobs here is because you cant live off a minimum wage job.

True. But higher minimum wages can only price people out of work.

Trouble is, we no longer have enough ways for people to live decently but cheaply. Income inequality drives up the cost of living and raises expectations, and now the only lifestyles on offer are those that cost too much. As a society, we need to rediscover ways of living that are more in line with what we can afford.

paulmapp8306

Indeed.

Watched Children in need last night - one thing really got to me. it was a documentary about child poverty.

in it was a boy (10 or so) and his older sister who lived with dad. While the general issue of child poverty is horrible and things need done, I felt there were several things wrong.

1. it was stated they received £406 per month. Well, Child Tax Credit (which you get in your not working and have 2 kids) is £108 per week. So unless they are not claiming everything - or im no that well informed (my sister told me this and shes involved in benefits as her job) they would get more than £406 just in Tax Credits. OK they pay no rent, no council tax etc but that still seemed low.

2. Whether the figure was right or wrong, it went on about the boy using his sisters school clothes and getting bullied because of it. HOWEVER in the clip hes wearing a fairly new Chelsea top - which cost £40+. You can get 3 school shirts from Tescos for £6. I lost some sympathy at that point.

3. They were paying £50pm of their income on "credit" while not eating lunches and poor meals; freezing when the gas ran out and living by candle light when the electric ran out. That credit was for TV/Wash machine etc. there was a 32" LCD TC which looked pretty new in the front room amongst the mess. why that TV? why not an old 2nd hand CRT one? Oh - and they were playing on a playstation. may have only been a 2 but still, cost of games etc. f they were really in that much poverty Id guess food/cheap clothes/elec and gas were a priority not a new TV, Playstation and chelsea tops. If they were that short they couldnt afford the electric for the cooker why are they wasting it powering a big LCD TV and a games console?

As I said, I agree child poverty is a big issue, but the clip they used when analysed did make me feel a bit "its partly their own fault".