Santander are now refunding interest payments on Cahoot flexible loan's

Denza

Sabbydancer wrote: »

Thanks Denza, Do you know if there is a template letter on here somewhere that might help me put a strong argument to them on this basis. I will defintely get something sent out to them asap and will post on here any updates. Thanks

As luck would have it I have just those templates.

PM me an email address and I will send them over.

Cheers, Denza

Flyboy757

Denza,

Through all of this I actually managed to raise a smile.. "Any reason which may be unreasonable"!!!!

I too am willing to pay to take this further. Infact, I'm off work for 3 weeks now so I intend to seek some legal advice.
Any idea how we calculate the actual 'overpaying 'of interest I had 9k originally in 2003.

Also Denza would you mind sharing a template so I can clog up Santander?
Cheers

Denza

Flyboy757 wrote: »

I too am willing to pay to take this further. Infact, I'm off work for 3 weeks now so I intend to seek some legal advice.

This is also my intention when I get the chance, in the interim I am happy to offer my time and money to any trial case so let me know how you get on.

Flyboy757 wrote: »

Any idea how we calculate the actual 'overpaying 'of interest I had 9k originally in 2003.

Assuming the T&Cs are deemed unfair with respect to the "variation of interest rate and charges" clauses then Cahootander were not entitled to make any increases from your original loan rate.

Hence if you use one of the many online loan calculators to work out what you would have paid against what you have paid it will give you a rough figure.

I've constructed a spreadsheet on which I have included all monthly repayments, deposits and withdrawals but this will be different for everyone.

Mine was 14K limit from February 2002 and would be around £12K claim up to and including today.

Flyboy757 wrote: »

Also Denza would you mind sharing a template so I can clog up Santander?

No problem, please PM me an email address to ship them to if you have not done so already.

Cheers, Denza

DJTASK

Got a letter today from Santander:

"Follow a review of our santander personal loans, we have noticed that there is an overpayment of £53.16 on your account. We have refunded the amount"

OK, its about 100x too low but it was still a surprise.

VanGoghsEarhere

Standard rejection received from Ombudsman after appeal. As usual a veneer of respectability gives a bank the right to ask you to bend over and ..... whilst the FOS looks on like a eunuch

Alex444

Now seem to have appointed Clarity as their collecting agents.

Denza

The OFT; as painfully slow* as they are; have agreed that with respect to the consideration of UTCCR 1999 and/or the unfair relationships test pursuant with CCA 2006 some consumers would not have been able to extract themselves from the contract regardless of whether this could be done, in theory, without penalty or at any time.

* under resourced

In their own words:

"We do, however, appreciate that not all consumers would have been in a position to clear the outstanding balance immediately or obtain alternative finance either from Santander or another source."

This is an important point that I am pleased has been finally acknowledged.

The aforementioned legislation regarding unfairness has supplier (in this case lender) friendly caveats pertaining to the consumer's (borrower) ability to withdraw from the contract at will and without penalty which would render a potential unfair term - and its subsequent application - fair.

In fact the FOS cheekily noted this in my sham adjudication... whilst simultaneously taking the time to ignore the twenty odd references to the legislation that I made in my favour.

Of course withdrawing from a, for example, contract with a local fishmonger might well be simple enough but withdrawing from an obligation to repay thousands of pounds during the credit crunch is an entirely different kettle of fish. Many of those who received the Cahoot offer (to apply) for an Abbey fixed rate loan can testify to this in light of their subsequent rejection.

This acknowledgement undermines that lender friendly counterargument which is a firm step in the right direction.

Again if anyone has not registered their concerns with the OFT then please take the time to do so. I have templates for advised communication if required.

Though the OFT move painfully slow this acknowledgement is also applicable in the Courts should a case be presented there in the future.

Good luck to all.

happy_bunny_2

Anyone see that the small claims court limit is now 10K?
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2013/04/small-claims-limit-rises

Flyboy757

Ok so I have fired off a couple emails to the adjudicator who agreed with Santander to pass on to the Ombudsman... Am I an idiot or are they just not getting this???
Honest replies to that PLEASE........... Here they are

Flyboy757

Thank you for your email and for keeping the case open.

I have reviewed your official response to my complaint and would now like to detail the points I would like to raise to the Ombudsman.

There are several key points that I do not believe have been addressed. I do not believe that this has been dealt with on an individual basis, rather, because of the extreme workload generated by all of the complaints you have received,I believe that a few points have been answered and the rest 'chucked' into a generic pot with the hope that claimants will tire at the timescales and difficulty involved in fighting a large institution.

Santander sent me a copy of the terms and conditions for this loan at my request. They were dated 2006. These are not the original terms and conditions of the loan. I signed the agreement on 8 May 2003.

You have stated that you have copied as attachments ALL the correspondance regarding this case that you have so I would like to give you my thoughts on that information now.

You sent me a 'random' copy of 'some T&Cs' which you have used in deciding your verdict. They are not officially dated. Infact they have a hand written date which even looks like it has been altered stating 2002-sep2003. What sort of company would send you that as proof of the actual terms and conditions, one of the most important documents in this case. Moreover, what sort of adjudicator would accept a hand corrected dating of the most important document?

The credit agreement that I signed was actually signed by cahoot before me. Is that normal?

You say on page 3 of your response, "cahoot has said that, by 2006, the flexible loan product was no longer profitable- I am satisfied, on balance, that this was so."
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS, you state a few paragraphs later that " I am not in a position to audit the profitability of Santander. So, again, I ask, how do you come to this conclusion?

In your section "telling me about the changes"...you have forwarded to me an electronic list of 'possible' communications, these are not the communications themselves. You are happy to accept those as 'proof' that I was adequately informed of all changes without actually seeing their content. Yet, you do not accept my case that I have not been informed ( as I have nothing to show you I haven't received anything!).

Your correspondence indicates that you have an obligation to treat my case as an individual case and on its own merits. I do not believe that this has been done.

You have failed to answer specific questions which I believe any future court of law would demand answered by Santander....

I have sent to you in my original complaint a 'transcript' as best I could of a telephone conversation. Santander define a Flexiloan in 2 parts, firstly the ability to draw down funds and secondly a variable interest rate with no loan term.
This is their definition of the product.
You can read the details in my original complaint (page 3) but I cannot draw down funds.. Fair enough you have ruled that they had the priveledge to withdraw this facility, I accept that ( although it is no longer flexible) and as such it should not be compared to 'similar products on the market in terms of rates, which they claim they have done.

The second part of their definition is that the product to be a flexible loan must have a "variable interest rate with no loan term"
It has a term 999 months, you may argue that is purely for credit reporting, I argue it is a defined term, more to the point the way this company charges interest it probably wouldn't be paid off even after 999 months should the payments that they take continue without adjustment. Ie they reduce the direct debit each time a payment is made.
AND MORE TO THE POINT... THEY HAVE FIXED THE INTEREST RATE at 17.94%

I was never informed of this fixing of interest! The only reason I know is that in the course of my complaints I asked them what the interest rate was as it states 16.61% on some of my statements and it also states this in the transactions sheet they provide.

Are you happy that a bank misleads its customers by printing on all correspondence one interest rate ( compounded or not) and then tell ŷou a different figure?

Furthermore, are you content that a bank can offer a VARIABLE rate product ( you decided that they were indeed entitled to vary the interest rate ( from a document that isn't correctly dated)) and then FIX it when they deem it appropriate? WITHOUT TELLING ME?!!

For example, I apply for a variable rate loan, I'm accepted, I pay the loan for a period of time and the interest rate increases then a few years down the line they turn round after the last 'hike' and FIX the loan at any APR?
Would that also be acceptable?

Where does it say in the terms and conditions that they can FIX this interest rate at their will? I mean, it doesn't allow that in the terms and conditions I have, I've just read the ones you have and it doesn't allow for that!

Why was this not even mentioned in your original response? It was one of the 3 main points I asked, you haven't dealt with me on an individual basis AT ALL.


It was also pointed out in an email and phone conversation to Miss Ankita Patel that it seems very strange that just after I make a large input into paying off the loan £4350 that the interest rate make its biggest jump from 8.77% to 14% within 2 weeks of the payment ( dated 06/12/2006)
Am I alone responsible for the profitability of Santander? Absolute nonsense, I would be interested to see if other customers also received their largest increase in rates after a significant amount of money was paid into the loan. If that is the case, and I do believe you have an obligation to at least put that to Santander, then there are undercurrents of very dark practises at this bank.

I am very much looking forward to your response to my points. I'm also very interested in the timescales that you use. It took a 'while' for you to respond officially to my initial complaint and you gave me 'days' to put forward my grievance to that reply.

The final point I would like you to consider is that I made my first complaint over the telephone to Santander months before any payments were made to others. I feel that I was 'brushed off' by Santander. Then they decide that actually people have been treated poorly and refund them. And when the floodgates opened they set up a team to fob off all claimants.

I have been treated unfairly by this company. Should you not agree with that statement and should Santander not own up and refund me I will be taking this case to court. It seems it will be my last resort.

Thank you for your time in investigating on my behalf.