Santander are now refunding interest payments on Cahoot flexible loan's

MCSAVE

DJTASK wrote: »

MCSAVE, its not my intention to disagree with you. I'm no expert on financial matters and hence its very likely that I could be wrong !!!

The reason I had concluded that the flexi-loan was still classed as running account credit were:

1) It used to be prior to removal of the borrowing facility
2) Our credit agreement had not changed at this point. I'm sure for such a major change they would have needed to formally do so.
3) Technically, Santander had enacted a clause in our agreement allowing them to withdraw the facility, this did not change the agreement in other ways
4) They could at any point reinstate the facility
5) When you refuse an interest rate increase on a credit card, the same thing happens i.e. your borrowing is withdrawn, but the rest of the agreement remains.
6) We get monthly statements
7) We don't get annual statements
8) Santander includes the requirements in their monthly statements of para's 1 and 2 of Schedule 2 of the act. This is not required for a fixed scheme.
9) Santander still describe it as a flexi-loan on the monthly statements

However, your points are most valid as well and could easily see the product now classed as a fixed sum agreement

To be honest it makes little difference as Santander are not compliant with the CC act either way round. If its fixed sums, then they have never sent annual statements - a clear breach. It its rolling credit, then there is no statement as required in para 4 Sch 2, again a clear breach.

If fixed sum breach, then we should be able to claim interest back to the withdrawal of the borrowing facility in Dec 2010. If rolling credit, assuming the online statements were not compliant either, then we should be able to claim interest back to the start of the recent changes to the act i.e. Oct 2008, otherwise Dec 2010.

My primary concern is to prove that Santander have done us wrong. I don't care how, but they deserve to be made to pay for their abuse of us customers.

A question to finish. This "new" complaint of breach of the CCA. I've included it in my response to the FOS as part of the original complaint. Should I however raise it as a new complaint, in which case do I complain to Santander first or just go straight to FOS?

I agree,either way they were wrong, my aim is the same as yours. I've added my complaint to the FOS,but in fairness to Santander will be writing to them for a response. Are you able to write down what you think is wrong with the running account credit statements? Then we could arrange a pro forma complaint, stating my points and yours because you're quite right, if they have breached the CCA regardless of the type of loan then we are entitled to redress.

DJTASK

I get a 3 page monthly statement from Santander. They have three different names and the following info:

Account summary statement. Inc date loan started, total loan outstanding, total monthly payment (actually the minimum payment required), and monthly payment date. Also has a section called “important information” that inc the settlement figure.

Transaction summary statement. Inc transactions that have occurred in the month.

Loan summary statement. Inc loan detail; amount outstanding, monthly payment (minimum again) and interest rate. Loan product details; end date, early repayment charges apply date, first movement date. Period that interest rate is applicable. Overpayments amount overpaid. Also has three sections called “minimum repayments” , “dispute resolution”, and “if you have failed to make a minimum payment”.

Each page has my name and account number details, period applicable and contact details for Santander. Two documents have in very small print as a footnote that FSA regulated.

Now if it’s a running credit agreement, then the consumer credit regulations 2007 details post contract requirements. Within this is regulation 14 “Subject to regulations 15 to 18, the statement shall contain the forms of wording set out in paragraphs 1 and 4 of Schedule 2, and in paragraph 2 of that Schedule if applicable, and the information set out in paragraph 3 of that Schedule.”

Para 4 of schedule 2 reads. The following forms of wording shall be contained in the statement—“If you do not pay off the full amount outstanding, we will allocate your payment to the outstanding balance in a specific order, which is set out [NOTE 1]. The way in which payments are allocated can make a significant difference to the amount of interest you will pay until the balance is cleared completely.”;
NOTE 1: state where in relation to this form of wording this information is located on the statement.

These words are not anyway on the statements.

However, regulation 16 states “Where the creditor has at any time during the period to which the statement relates required the debtor to repay sums which are due under the agreement, the information and forms of wording set out in paragraphs 3 and 4 of Schedule 2 shall only be included in a statement given in relation to an agreement which does not require payment each month of a minimum sum.” This is a bit confusing. When I look at all my credit card statements, they all have para 4 wording included. As these work the same as our flexi loan, I can only think that the “repay sums which are due” refers to penalty and other sums rather than the minimum payment. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

Other errors on the statements are under the loan product details section. Here the end date and the early repayment charges date are both 00-00-000.

The key document to search for is the consumer credit SI 1167/2007

Denza

Potatofrisky wrote: »

I have just spoken to Santander and requested the APR on the cahoot flexi loan. They stated that its currently 23.21% but on my statement I received 7 days ago its shows a rate of 21.0800%! I mentioned this to the adjudicator and the reply is as follows:

All of the information contained in these e-mails has been added to the case for an ombudsman's consideration.

I am unable to confirm why you are given a different rate verbally when telephoning to enquire about this and I do not have sufficient evidence to confirm this is the case. However, the information and rates contained in my letter dated 7 December 2012 were based on the account statements that Santander has provided as evidence of this. The reason no new agreement was required was because the terms and conditions of the account allowed for this, as detailed in my previous letter.

However, I have progressed the case to an ombudsman for consideration for you and you will receive postal correspondence confirming this shortly.

What utter rubbish, the FOS are just not inetersted and they will believe the banks over what I have provided them in my letter and emails. Why don't they call Santander and ask for the recording of my conversation? I think this whole think stinks and the sooner I pay all my debts off and have nothing to do with banks the better! I personally believe they should let the banks fail and not hand out tax payers money to support them! - rant over, I feel better now. I think the legal way is the only way and maybe we should include the FOS for the way they have handled the whole case! Why hasn't MSE followed this up also? Keep on fighting, I am sure we will get some justice. Anyway, why were they refunding out of Goodwill early last year, because they knew they were in the wrong obviously!

Well I can help you out here.

I complained about this to Santander having 20% on my statements and 21.94% given to me verbally respectively and a mere twelve weeks later they apologised for the statements being wrong and offered me £45.

I refused their kind offer and added this complaint to my overarching FOS case.

In my subsequent assessment the adjudicator has informed me that Santander now claim that the APR is 21.94% but the "gross interest" is 20.0% and once again they have apologised for which the adjudicators has maintained the original £45 is fair.

Unfortunately this is all complete bollox.

Santander help desk and complaints teams don't even understand simple interest rate details for the products which they are in place to support and the FOS adjudicators do not care to find out for themselves but simply take all information from Santander as gospel.

Unlike Santander support staff or the FOS I have taken the liberty to understand the details and in my case 21.94% is the EAR and 20.0% is in fact the APR. The EAR takes into account the compounded interest on interest.

Gross interest (effectively AER) only concerns credit, i.e. as opposed to debit calculations.

You would have thought that Santander themselves might know this what with them being a multinational banking powerhouse.

kenny_straw

Guys
On my statements from Santander every month it clearly states interest rate - 0%!!
I have called Santander at least 3 times and they tell me its closer to 18% - and are unable to explain why the statements say 0%
I also raised this in my original complaint with them and with the FOS, however it was ignored. Since my FOS rejection just before Christmas I have asked my adjudicator why this has been ignored. He has asked Santander to provide an explanation of this within 2 weeks.....should be interesting!

Pathway2

Hi all

I have been tryng to check my Cahoot Terms and Conditions document which appears to be dated June 2006 - which is the only copy I have - and

I cannot find where it is supposed to state that:-

1. to maintain competiveness of the business as a whole etc

2. to reflect actual or expected changes in money market rates

3, to ensure business run prudently

None of these mentioned in my copy. Were they changed?
Can anyone advise?

Many thanks!:j

Denza

kenny_straw wrote: »

He has asked Santander to provide an explanation of this within 2 weeks.....should be interesting!

Won't be that interesting I fear based on my experience.

Santander will either give an accurate or inaccurate explanation which the adjudicator will regurgitate without due diligence or further comment. Certainly nothing negative will be inferred by the FOS over the fact that Santander cannot even report their own interest rates correctly.

If you are lucky you will be furnished with a £45 compensatory offer as I was though I would not hold your breath!

DJTASK

Kenny Straw & Denza. I believe Santander have breach the Consumer Credit Regulations with respect to giving you an incorrect interest rate on your monthly statements.

The 1983 regulations specify the information to be included in periodic
statements for running-account credit. In particular: the rate of interest, or information enabling the debtor to check the interest calculation, or a statement that the rate will be provided on request together with an explanation of the manner in which interest has been calculated.

Santander have not done this in your cases, and therefore as it is a breach of the regulations, you are not liable for ANY interest during the period of the breach. I suspect this is more than £45 !!

Kenny Straw - I suggest you go back to your adjudicator and tell them this. Its irrelevant that Santander can explain it or not. The fact that they have not provided you with a monthly statement in accordance with the CC regulations is the breach.

Denza

DJTASK wrote: »

Kenny Straw & Denza. I believe Santander have breach the Consumer Credit Regulations with respect to giving you an incorrect interest rate on your monthly statements.

The 1983 regulations specify the information to be included in periodic
statements for running-account credit. In particular: the rate of interest, or information enabling the debtor to check the interest calculation, or a statement that the rate will be provided on request together with an explanation of the manner in which interest has been calculated.

Santander have not done this in your cases, and therefore as it is a breach of the regulations, you are not liable for ANY interest during the period of the breach. I suspect this is more than £45 !!

Kenny Straw - I suggest you go back to your adjudicator and tell them this. Its irrelevant that Santander can explain it or not. The fact that they have not provided you with a monthly statement in accordance with the CC regulations is the breach.

Unfortunately they have given a correct interest rate on the statement.

They have though given an incorrect interest rate consistantly on the telephone via the help desk, via their complaints procedure and through their eventual feedback to the FOS wrt my case.

dfwannabee_2

I have only just seen this thread.

Had a cahoot flexable loan in 2004. Finally paid off in 2011 to santander.

Is it worth me trying to do anything about the interest i have paid?

Everyone seems to be getting knockbacks now?

Cell

Still no response from me, and the regular monthly update from the adjudicator is a couple of weeks late.

They're probably still calculating my refund ;-)