Does AL make a difference depending on what date in a month you start?

Spendless

Just querying. Have recently started with a company. Their holiday year runs Jan-Dec. My contract says that you are entitled to hols as follows
Jan-Oct - 2 days per month
Nov - Dec - 1.5 days per month

I started in October so to me I get 5 days (2 for Oct, 1.5 x 2 for Nov-Dec). 3 days are taken from me as the company closes between Xmas and New Year leaving me with 2 days to take.

However the wages department told me I have 3 days. When I queried why, I was told because I don't work full days. I am the only p-time employee there. I work mon-fri for 6 hours per day. The others work an 8 hour day. I said that didn't make any difference I would still get 'a days pay' it just wouldn't be 8 hours worth of pay as that isn't what I work.

My point is if I only worked 1 hour a day 5 days a week and put in a days hol, I wouldn't be paid 8 hours worth cos everyone else is full-time I would be paid 1 hour. When my point was accepted, they changed their minds about why I was still wrong.:huh: When I showed my contract and told how I'd worked it out, I then got told that I hadn't started on the 1st possible date in the month, true I haven't. There is nothing to say this does affect AL in the contract and nothing to say it doesn't either, so what is usually the case?

Torry_Quine

Holiday entitlement starts from the day you start work. The minimum is 28 days which can include public holidays. As you say even though you work less hours per day you should be getting the same days as each day is for the amount o hours worked.

Spendless

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

I think what they are saying is that as you didn't work the whole of Oct then you are getting 1.5 days for Nov and Dec.

When did you actually start?

I started Oct 10th.

an9i77

Its not unusual (although a bit mean) for employers to stipulate that you have to work the whole month to get the annual leave for that month, although if that took you under the statutory minimim (5.6 weeks leave/year, can include bh's ) then I think they'd have a case to answer. Where I work we base it on a pro rata of the number of weeks in the year worked / divided by 52 so someone would only lose a week rather than a month that they had not worked (if they started mid week that is) but so long as you still get your stat minimum I don't suppose there's much you can do about it if they work it out on whole months work. Does seem a bit unfair though in your case particularly as you are getting the bad months!

kazd

Okay use this as a starting point. For eg

Full time 5days x 7hours x 52 = 1820 hours (Working 9am - 5pm with 1 hour for lunch - so paid for 7 hours)
P/time 5 x 5 x 52 = 1300 hours (For arguments sake 9am - 2pm 5 hours per day no lunch)

Divide yours hours by f/t hours 1300/1820 x 100 = 71.4% That is the percentage you work compared to a full timer.

Holiday for eg 25 days per year ( work it out in hours)
25 x 7 = 175 hours
your hours would be 175 x 71.4% = 125 hours (You would do the same for the bank holidays but you are only entitled to extra hours for bank holiday if you do not normally work on that day. For eg I do not work Mondays but I am still entitled to a pro rata amount of paid holiday for that day)

As a part timer your holiday would normally be worked out in hours and can be taken accordingly.

Re the holiday for October, most companies allow the full allowance if you start before the 15th of the month, after that they would halve the months allowance. Would be a pretty mean company to reduce it any more than that.

Hope this helps.

I used to work at Nationwide and they had a calculator on the intranet for holidays and bank holidays but I still like to work it out manually and my figures agreed everytime. At my new company they were not used to part time staff and I had to show HR how to do it for myself and another new p/t employee.

Spendless

Thanks kaz:) though that calculation made my head spin:o. I work 6 hours per day. F-time workers work 7.75 per day(I said 8 for ease!). Someone starting on jan 1st stopping there till Dec 31st (for sake of argument) would in their 1st year be entitled to 23 days of AL PLUS bank hols. Everyone works a Mon-Fri week.

What you've said about starting part way thru, is what my line manager says about it, that would be the only reason I would get 4 days rather than 5 and she agreed with my reasoning about why 3 days was wrong!

getmore4less

They need to prorata a minimum of 5.6 weeks(28 days for a 5 day week) holiday based on your start date till end of year. The 3 extra they can be a bit more flexable over but should just prorata them.

So 10th oct start is 12 full weeks (12/52) * 5.6 * 5 = 6.46days min or
7.15 based on the 31 day prorata

You need 5 days for the xmas week off so have 1.46 or 2.15 left.

Spendless

getmore4less wrote: »

They need to prorata a minimum of 5.6 weeks(28 days for a 5 day week) holiday based on your start date till end of year. The 3 extra they can be a bit more flexable over but should just prorata them.

So 10th oct start is 12 full weeks (12/52) * 5.6 * 5 = 6.46days min or
7.15 based on the 31 day prorata

You need 5 days for the xmas week off so have 1.46 or 2.15 left.

Which is it? That's the bit I don't understand. I know someone earlier mentioned BHs that ahppened earlier in the year, I lost my reply but it was to say I already took them at the time as previously I was employed at the same work-place but via a recuitment agency, so any requests for paid hols I sent to them.

LittleVoice

The bank holidays before you began your direct employment contract were paid (or not) by the agency and are nothing to do with your current employer.

Spendless

LittleVoice wrote: »

The bank holidays before you began your direct employment contract were paid (or not) by the agency and are nothing to do with your current employer.

Yes, I know! Someone earlier in a reply mentioned them, but when I quoted them to reply I had already taken them, my post 'got lost'. It kept fetching up my opening post instead. I mentioned them just now when people are doing their equations to inform people I'd already taken them cos I thought I hadn't answered that person's point. I have just tried to find the post that mentioned them and it's not there, so must have been deleted, which would explain why my quoted reply wasn't working!

LittleVoice

Spendless wrote: »

Yes, I know! Someone earlier in a reply mentioned them, but when I quoted them to reply I had already taken them, my post 'got lost'. It kept fetching up my opening post instead. I mentioned them just now when people are doing their equations to inform people I'd already taken them cos I thought I hadn't answered that person's point. I have just tried to find the post that mentioned them and it's not there, so must have been deleted, which would explain why my quoted reply wasn't working!

I thought you were asking about whether a proportion of the time allocated to bank holidays should be included in your holiday entitlement for your part year. I wasn't clear that you understood that those earlier bank holidays still have to be apportioned in your current employment. Any way, I'm glad you are certain about them.