The Euro crisis

milliondollarman76

pqrdef the Germans are just as responsible for this mess as the Greeks. All countries cannot run a surplus together. Germany needs to boost domestic demand. Ditto China.

pqrdef

de1amo wrote: »

i think in the breathing time this bailout has bought there will be tighter fiscal 'bonding' in the EU which will mean the Germans will run the eurozone and the euro on its terms!

And where does that leave the rest of us? A two-tier Europe can't work. Already there's talk of the eurozone having its own President. But we obviously can't abide a situation where decisions are made by the 17 and handed down to the 27, like it or lump it (especially if some of the 27 decide to join the 17 after all).

So basically we're screwed. We're on the way out, slowly but surely. This will make a lot of people very happy, and a lot of people very poor.

Cameron and Osborne, like their predecessors, started off by insisting that it was all just a eurozone problem, and nothing at all to do with us. Now they seem to have discovered that it matters to us, while still insisting that they aren't putting any money up. Huh?

Their one chance to retrieve the situation was to pile in asap and insist that all the economic problems of the EU were the problems of the whole EU, and there could be no separate eurozone structure.

They could have played Sarkozy and Merkel off against each other, opened up a rift, and broken the Franco-German axis of evil once and for all.

datostar

pqrdef wrote: »

The only real answer is for armies of blond blue-eyed Germans to head south and impregnate all those Mediterranean women with good German children. Because until the Germans convert all of Europe into Greater Germany, the rest of it will never cope with German ideas on how to run the euro.

Already been tried. Didn't work....

pqrdef

drc wrote: »

The Germans have a good quality of life and work hard.

The trick is to have a good quality of life and not work hard. Ask a Tory (e.g. anybody on a golf course mid-week). Hard work is for other people.

Aspiring_Writer

OK. I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and ask what is maybe a very dumb question: Ready?

Why can't the EU, or even the world for that matter, cancel all sovereign debt?

These 'billions' and 'trillions' are just figures on a computer screen. The money doesnt actually change hands does it?

It looks like we're going to end up pumping more money into the Banks, if not now then at some point down the line. Greece are almost certainly going to default at some stage, in the meantime they are facing social and economic meltdown trying to service ridiculous levels of debt.

They need to get their house in order, certainly, but they can't do that in a logical and reasonable way whilst trying to service that debt.

Any banks, UK or European, who have lent money to Greece are extremely unlikely to get their money back in any case.

I would like to know the current balance outstanding between the EU members (all 27).

An earlier poster said that everyone knows that the system is corrupt and liable to collapse and needs a radical overhaul, probably from the ground up. Also that the various protests around the world - notably the Occupy groups - want something done. They may not have all their ducks in a row yet, but they, and everyone else knows that our global financial system isn't viable in its present state.

So, why don't we let Greece default and get on with rebuilding itself, and why don't we cancel all sovereign debt and start again? We're going to spend stupid amounts of money anyway, everyone knows this isn't over by a long way yet.

Maybe I'm being hopelessly niaive...

de1amo

if the eurozone agree to write off all the debts-including to sovereign states and banks outside the Eu---the world would just cancel all debt and the whole banking and commercial world would melt down --contagion would be globalised!

in answer to someones suggesting that the uk gov has sold out and it will become a 2 tier eurozone--dont worry when the sheep hits the fan only the upper tier will be left--the tiers 2s will leave!( i really couldnt care from my personal finances as i left the uk in 2006 because i saw this pile of carp coming)

CLAPTON

basically if all debt was cancelled then nobody would ever lend money again

no mortgages, no start up companies, no investment

Mr_Mumble

Aspiring_Writer wrote: »

OK. I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and ask what is maybe a very dumb question: Ready?

Why can't the EU, or even the world for that matter, cancel all sovereign debt?

These 'billions' and 'trillions' are just figures on a computer screen. The money doesnt actually change hands does it?

They're just numbers on a computer screen that are supposed to pay for the pensions of most of the population! Pensioners may get a little antsy if they're told you're going to have your pension cut in half.

Also, all these sovereigns are spending more than they receive in tax revenue. If the British government was to renege on its debt tomorrow it would have £120bn less to spend each year (of course banana republics just print the excess money and create inflation after they've defaulted as to kid their populations they aren't worse off).

Aspiring_Writer

de1amo wrote: »

if the eurozone agree to write off all the debts-including to sovereign states and banks outside the Eu---the world would just cancel all debt and the whole banking and commercial world would melt down --contagion would be globalised! QUOTE]

But why would it? That's why I want to know what the balance of outstanding debt is between, for example, all the EU members.

What is the net balance of the UK for example?

How much do we owe to other countries, as a total?

How much are we owed by other countries?

Net Balance?

Repeat for all EU states.

There has to be a better way,because this current state of affairs isn't going to improve any time soon, if at all.

de1amo

see the above responses--the pensioners and the business would lock up as an almighty credit crunch would take control-