Help worried sick here. Gross Misconduct

phathanded

Thankyou so much Lazy. I now know the proper procedures and am happy that a director of the company would hear my appeal if it came to that. I have a meeting before my disciplinary with my Union delegate and I am sure they will be able to advise me very well too. Will let you know the outcome of it all when it happens.

Sambucus_Nigra

What was allegedly actually said?

phathanded

Allegedly actually said? Thats a contradiction sambucus. Plus would rather not go into details on here as to not comprimise my case. You just never know.

Sambucus_Nigra

phathanded wrote: »

Allegedly actually said? Thats a contradiction sambucus. Plus would rather not go into details on here as to not comprimise my case. You just never know.

No, it's not a contradiction. He is alleging that something was actually said as in specific words were uttered. The way it is written it seems that you don't know what that is. I can understand why you aren't saying what the actual words were; but is there any way that someone said something that could have been misunderstood?

phathanded

Yes there is scope for the manager misunderstanding/mishearing something someone said. This is what I will be bringing up in my disciplinary. I was told in my investigation the comment was shouted and therefore couldnt be misheard, however with the manager changed their statement in their second interview and said the comment was made in discussion and it wasnt meant for them to hear. Now to hear what someone is saying in a conversation from 10-15 feet away in a noisy factory environment is very far fetched to me.

zzzLazyDaisy

Can I just suggest that you steer well clear of any allegations that the manager might have been making things up, or exaggerating, or deliberately seeking to get you into trouble, or any other confrontational type of allegation (not that you have gone down that route on this forum, in fact you have responded to all posts with dignity), but in the heat of the moment and the stress of the interview it would be easy to let your composure slip and make an accusation against the person who has made the complaint. You need to remember that it is a manager who made the complaint and a manager who is chairing the interview. They know each other and those sort of allegations will only harm your case.

It is perfectly legitimate to point out that the manager's version of events changed between his first interview and the second. The thing to focus on, though, is his uncertainty. He doesn't seem to be sure what happened and you can't help because you honestly do not know what was said and by whom because whatever it was that the manager heard you didn't hear the same thing. It is perfectly reasonable to point out that it is a noisy factory and you were standing some distance away from the manager so it is possible that he genuinely misheard some innocent comment. You may be asked if you are saying that the manager is lying, or deliberately fabricating what happened - I suggest that you don't go down that route, but simply say that you have no reason to think that he is deliberately misleading anyone, but the simple fact is that whatever he heard, or genuinely thinks he heard, you didn't hear it, so you cannot say any more than that.

SarEl

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Can I just suggest that you steer well clear of any allegations that the manager might have been making things up, or exaggerating, or deliberately seeking to get you into trouble, or any other confrontational type of allegation (not that you have gone down that route on this forum, in fact you have responded to all posts with dignity), but in the heat of the moment and the stress of the interview it would be easy to let your composure slip and make an accusation against the person who has made the complaint. You need to remember that it is a manager who made the complaint and a manager who is chairing the interview. They know each other and those sort of allegations will only harm your case.

It is perfectly legitimate to point out that the manager's version of events changed between his first interview and the second. The thing to focus on, though, is his uncertainty. He doesn't seem to be sure what happened and you can't help because you honestly do not know what was said and by whom because whatever it was that the manager heard you didn't hear the same thing. It is perfectly reasonable to point out that it is a noisy factory and you were standing some distance away from the manager so it is possible that he genuinely misheard some innocent comment. You may be asked if you are saying that the manager is lying, or deliberately fabricating what happened - I suggest that you don't go down that route, but simply say that you have no reason to think that he is deliberately misleading anyone, but the simple fact is that whatever he heard, or genuinely thinks he heard, you didn't hear it, so you cannot say any more than that.

I have to agree. I have left LazyDaisy to this trerad because her advice was spot on as usual. But I had concerns some posts ago. The manager didn't overhear a comment - it now appears it was shouted at him. He might not know who shouted it, but it's a short list if only so many people could have! If you didn't say it and didn't hear it, that is the end of your story. Don't elaborate. You are either telling the truth or you are not.

phathanded

SarEl the manager said in their initial complaint the comment was shouted at them. The second statement they have made has said the comment was made in discussion not shouted at him just to clarify that. Also the manager said they only saw me and two other colleagues there but they couldnt see anyone else in the department. Now in my evidence I named other people that were around at the time and not one of them has been asked about it. This is what is bothering me because these people could clarify all events and help either side of the argument but they havent bothered asking them about it.

phathanded

Another update.
My union delegate has just called and has warned me that the likelyhood is they are going to sack me tomorrow. He says the wording of my allegations is very strong using such phrases as 'serious breach of trust'. He has had dealings with the HR person involved and believes this is what they are aiming to do. I have been informed to tell the truth (which I have since day 1). Now i am devastated as I may get the sack tomorrow for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I do not condone homophobic behaviour in any way. I have a mortgage and am so scared at this time. This has to have been the worst two weeks of my life!!

SarEl

There is something here that isn't adding up. How can you union rep be so certain that a dismissal will take place when (it would appear) nobody is clear what was said, who said it, and nobody else is being disciplined. HR people may be "hard cases" in some instances - but they are not generally stupid. HR must realise that if you and others stick to the story that you neither said anything nor heard anything, they would have to sack everyone in sight to make a fair dismissal - and that would be kind of hard to do since nobody even seems to be clear who "everyone in sight" is! You have union representation - so the employer knows that if they act unfairly, the union is very likely to take it to the wire. Which means one of two things. They have evidence of something. Or they are perfectly happy to pay good money just to get rid of you.