Shopping abroad using PayPal - how to save in fees

terra_ferma

Nowadays many companies worldwide accept PayPal. If you are planning to do a bit of Christmas shopping on foreign sites (including, but not just, eBay) here' a way to pay slightly lower fees.
If you exchange the currency before you purchase you can save some money.

For currency conversions of amounts in your PayPal account that do not form part of a specific transaction into or out of your account (e.g. converting your balance to another currency) and for transactions involving a currency conversion for which the seller has agreed to bear the conversion fee:

2.5% above the wholesale exchange rate

For all other transactions involving a currency conversion:

Between 3.0% and 4.0% above the wholesale exchange rate depending on the currency into which the relevant amount is converted
e.g.:
Australian Dollar (AUD): 4.0%
Euro (EUR): 3.5%
U.S. Dollar (USD): 3.0%

However if you exchange within your account before purchasing, even while you are checking out, you can save some money. (not a huge amount, but better in my pockets than PP's...)

If you go into your account you can look at the two different rates, there is a link called currency converter, where you can look up the exchange rate.

E.G for £100 right now you get AU$ 150.43 for balance conversion (i.e. exchange within your account, no third parties involved), and if it's a payment conversion (i.e. a transaction) AU$ 150.43 will cost you £101.57.


Board guide: hope I posted in the right place, please do not move to ebay board, as this post is for people purchasing from ordinary websites that accept paypal, as they may be less familiar with it

Lugh_Chronain

Couple of things to consider:

1. What are the protections with PayPal if anything goes wrong, e.g company goes bust?

2. overseas and web purchases are protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if paying by credit card. So even though you might be paying slightly more, you'll be better protected if paying by CC [surely?].

terra_ferma

Lugh_Chronain wrote: »

Couple of things to consider:

1. What are the protections with PayPal if anything goes wrong, e.g company goes bust?

2. overseas and web purchases are protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if paying by credit card. So even though you might be paying slightly more, you'll be better protected if paying by CC [surely?].

My post is about saving money if you want to pay using paypal, not telling people how they should pay. Paypal as a payment method has been discussed many times, you should be able to find the answers to your questions.

This is simply telling MSErs that if you exchange your money before you make your purchase, and have a balance in that currency ready, you will pay slightly less fees.
A bit less money in paypal's pockets, and more in ours, nothing wrong with that.

Lugh_Chronain

No need to loose your rag, I was only posting what people might like to consider. Consumer choice after all. Isn't that what it's all about?

I did actually think you made a fairly good point though personally I'd prefer to weigh up the options. If one outweighs the other on legal protection I think I'd opt for paying by CC [personally].

terra_ferma

Lugh_Chronain wrote: »

No need to loose your rag, I was only posting what people might like to consider. Consumer choice after all. Isn't that what it's all about?

I did actually think you made a fairly good point though personally I'd prefer to weigh up the options. If one outweighs the other on legal protection I think I'd opt for paying by CC [personally].

Not losing my rags, but there are some people who hate PP wholeheartedly, and post against it at every opportunity, you should see the heated debates in the ebay forum.... I can see you are not here to pick a fight, though

PP treats those who use it for selling really badly, it's really hated by a lot of people. But from a buyer's point of view it's very safe, as you can get your money back if you don't receive your items, or if you want to return them because they are not as described.

They'd pay you back first and then go after the seller, normally just freezing funds as soon as you make a claim, then clawing back the money once they've decided in the buyer's favour, or if there is no money in the account they employ debt collectors.
I believe that even if a company became insolvent they would still refund the buyer.

Here's more info, with they marketing hype.
https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safetyadvice/BuyerProtectionOffEbay.htm
Here's the full terms.
https://cms.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_GB#13.%20PayPal%20Buyer%20Protection

Personally I hate it as a company, like ebay they do as they please, with little accountability. However they do everything they can to keep buyers happy, which is the reason of their success so I use it a lot anyway.

jamespir

id rather use my own card then trust paypal but thanks

Lugh_Chronain

terra_ferma wrote: »

Not losing my rags, but there are some people who hate PP wholeheartedly, and post against it at every opportunity, you should see the heated debates in the ebay forum.... I can see you are not here to pick a fight, though

PP treats those who use it for selling really badly, it's really hated by a lot of people. But from a buyer's point of view it's very safe, as you can get your money back if you don't receive your items, or if you want to return them because they are not as described.

They'd pay you back first and then go after the seller, normally just freezing funds as soon as you make a claim, then clawing back the money once they've decided in the buyer's favour, or if there is no money in the account they employ debt collectors.
I believe that even if a company became insolvent they would still refund the buyer.

Here's more info, with they marketing hype.
https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safetyadvice/BuyerProtectionOffEbay.htm
Here's the full terms.
https://cms.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_GB#13.%20PayPal%20Buyer%20Protection

Personally I hate it as a company, like ebay they do as they please, with little accountability. However they do everything they can to keep buyers happy, which is the reason of their success so I use it a lot anyway.

I have and do use PayPal, not very often though, and especially not for buying stuff from abroad.

I somewhat agree with what you are saying, and yet though PayPal have their own refund system, this isn't as strong as the legal protection of Section 75, so I would be very weary of using PayPal for purchases abroad even though what you say might be true.

I think if I were making a purchase from abroad I'd rather use foresight rather than hindsight as I wouldn't want to be caught out. And I hope you're right about what you say about companies becoming insolvent though personally I think it's best to be safe than sorry. I'd still prefer to pay by CC.

I know in life you have to take risks though this wouldn't be one I'd be prepared to take at this moment.

terra_ferma

Lugh_Chronain wrote: »

I have and do use PayPal, not very often though, and especially not for buying stuff from abroad.

I somewhat agree with what you are saying, and yet though PayPal have their own refund system, this isn't as strong as the legal protection of Section 75, so I would be very weary of using PayPal for purchases abroad even though what you say might be true.

I think if I were making a purchase from abroad I'd rather use foresight rather than hindsight as I wouldn't want to be caught out. And I hope you're right about what you say about companies becoming insolvent though personally I think it's best to be safe than sorry. I'd still prefer to pay by CC.

I know in life you have to take risks though this wouldn't be one I'd be prepared to take at this moment.

I think it depends on points of views, because I would prefer to use paypal, as in my experience it's very safe.
For example if a company becomes insolvent, I think I would lose my money if I paid by cc.
But I've never had to make a claim through my cc, while I know how easy it is with PP, so it may simply be about what we perceive to be safer and what we are more familiar with.

Lugh_Chronain

terra_ferma wrote: »

if a company becomes insolvent, I think I would lose my money if I paid by cc.

I don't think it's a matter of a point of view and I don't think what you say here is correct.

If a company goes into liquidation or becomes insolvent (home or abroad), you can make a Section 75 claim as long as you've paid £100 or over on an item [or whatever] using your CC. Any claim will take about six months though you will receive the whole amount once the claim is complete.

There may be some incidences where this might not apply however, as is pointed out in the Section 75 refunds guide:

And this example appears as if you've spent over £100 too:

It's worth remembering that sometimes you might not be able to protect yourself, for example if you pay a monthly fee of under £100 to a company that goes into administration.

Same might apply too if you were to buy two separate items were say one part cost £60 and the other cost £40, you won't be covered, but if you buy this as a whole for the price of £100 you should be OK, you'll be covered. It's always best to check the options in cases like these.

Therefore, the £100 is for the cash value of a 'single item'. Yet, single items aren't always that straightforward as is pointed out in the guide. There are a few more good examples in the Section 75 refunds guide.

Nevertheless, and as pointed out in the guide, even if the problem is just non-delivery or faulty goods, or whatever, you have exactly the same rights from the credit card company as from the retailer, etc. So there shouldn't be any problem when making a claim.

terra_ferma

Lugh_Chronain wrote: »

I don't think it's a matter of a point of view and I don't think what you say here is correct.

If a company goes into liquidation or becomes insolvent (home or abroad), you can make a Section 75 claim as long as you've paid £100 or over on an item [or whatever] using your CC. Any claim will take about six months though you will receive the whole amount once the claim is complete.

There may be some incidences where this might not apply however, as is pointed out in the Section 75 refunds guide:

And this example appears as if you've spent over £100 too:



Same might apply too if you were to buy two separate items were say one part cost £60 and the other cost £40, you won't be covered, but if you buy this as a whole for the price of £100 you should be OK, you'll be covered. It's always best to check the options in cases like these.

Therefore, the £100 is for the cash value of a 'single item'. Yet, single items aren't always that straightforward as is pointed out in the guide. There are a few more good examples in the Section 75 refunds guide.

Nevertheless, and as pointed out in the guide, even if the problem is just non-delivery or faulty goods, or whatever, you have exactly the same rights from the credit card company as from the retailer, etc. So there shouldn't be any problem when making a claim.

As I said there are probably lots of threads discussing the pros and cons of different payment methods.
I'm sure MSErs will do their own research and if they wish to use PayPal this thread may help them to save a bit of money in fees.

Lugh_Chronain

Fair enough. And at least you’ve pointed that out. People can and will make their own decisions after all.