Office License Ended

Daventry_Dave

Hi,

I'm looking for a bit of advice

The company I work for currently rent an office in Northampton and are looking to relocate.

The last paperwork we received from the owners of the building was a 'License' dated 1st December 2007 and states it is valid until 31st December 2010.

Further, this license was never signed by us.

I have approached the owners and suggested that we will give a maximum of one months notice, whereas they state that we have to give notice of at least three months.

As far as I can see, they have no contract so no way to enforce any notice period at all........
However, Is there some loophole or something about rolling contracts that i should know? or can we really go as we please?

Thanks for any help!

Sambucus_Nigra

Daventry_Dave wrote: »

I have approached the owners and suggested that we will give a maximum of one months notice, whereas they state that we have to give notice of at least three months.

'Oh, our paperwork says one month. Can you send over a copy of the signed lease that states this please. Thanks. Dav Dave.'

smartpicture

I had an office lease which clearly expired on a certain date. We didn't bother to renew it, just carried on working there for another 5 years, paying the rent as previously agreed.

When we wanted to move, we asked a solicitor where we stood. He said that not only did the terms of original lease continue, this also meant that the personal guarantees for £10k that we had agreed to in the original lease (which we thought had ended 5 years ago) would continue indefinitely. He said that even if we gave notice and left, if the office remained empty, the landlord could use the personal guarantee and make us continue paying for it.

Now we found that hard to believe, but that was advice from an expensive solicitor, so we just negotiated with our landlord until we agreed something we could both live with.

Annisele

You definitely have a contract. You use the space, they provide the space, you pay for the space - there's a contract.

Working out the terms of that contract is a bit more difficult! How much money are we talking about here? You don't have to say exactly, but if the rent is £10k a month you need a solicitor, but if it's £50 a month you might as well just give your one month's notice, wait to see if you get sued, and then decide what to do at that point.

Daventry_Dave

Annisele wrote: »

You definitely have a contract. You use the space, they provide the space, you pay for the space - there's a contract.

Working out the terms of that contract is a bit more difficult! How much money are we talking about here? You don't have to say exactly, but if the rent is £10k a month you need a solicitor, but if it's £50 a month you might as well just give your one month's notice, wait to see if you get sued, and then decide what to do at that point.

There is definately no written contract as the last one recieved is stated as being valid until 2010, but im just not sure where we stand legally as you say - we are still here, paying rent.

The payments are around £600 per month so we are not talking about huge amounts.

I certainly dont want the hassle of any court action, but I also do not see how they could enforce any notice period without a contract to back this up?

dseventy

Daventry_Dave wrote: »

, but I also do not see how they could enforce any notice period without a contract to back this up?

You have a contract! You pay money for the office, they provide the office and take money. Contract therefore exists.

What you need to know is what the terms of this are.

D70

Daventry_Dave

dseventy wrote: »

You have a contract! You pay money for the office, they provide the office and take money. Contract therefore exists.

What you need to know is what the terms of this are.

D70

But as the written contract has ended and not been renewed, it has finished...no?
......so my question is what contract are we now tied to and who decides the terms of it?

Sambucus_Nigra

Daventry_Dave wrote: »

But as the written contract has ended and not been renewed, it has finished...no?
......so my question is what contract are we now tied to and who decides the terms of it?

You need to ask them what contract they think they are working to, as in post no 2 on here, and negotiate from there.

smartpicture

Daventry_Dave wrote: »

But as the written contract has ended and not been renewed, it has finished...no?
......so my question is what contract are we now tied to and who decides the terms of it?

Did you read my post no 3? That's exactly what I thought, until I consulted a solicitor.

CapJ

smartpicture wrote: »

I had an office lease which clearly expired on a certain date. We didn't bother to renew it, just carried on working there for another 5 years, paying the rent as previously agreed.

When we wanted to move, we asked a solicitor where we stood. He said that not only did the terms of original lease continue, this also meant that the personal guarantees for £10k that we had agreed to in the original lease (which we thought had ended 5 years ago) would continue indefinitely. He said that even if we gave notice and left, if the office remained empty, the landlord could use the personal guarantee and make us continue paying for it.

Now we found that hard to believe, but that was advice from an expensive solicitor, so we just negotiated with our landlord until we agreed something we could both live with.

You might want to be careful in repeating a solicitor's advice. His advice was for your particular circumstances, which apparently included personal guarantees with no end date.

Other things may vary such as automatic renewals whether implicitly, or explicitly denied or agreed.

The advice is interesting and useful but that doesn't mean it will apply in this situation.

However, given what the OP has said then he probably should do what you did and negotiate with the landlord, as not worth going to solicitors over + the landlord probably does have a case (OP here's my take: by staying in the property you accepted the T&C's, and by staying beyond 2010 they are deemed to have been extended).

smartpicture

CapJ wrote: »

You might want to be careful in repeating a solicitor's advice. His advice was for your particular circumstances, which apparently included personal guarantees with no end date. Other things may vary such as automatic renewals whether implicitly, or explicitly denied or agreed. The advice is interesting and useful but that doesn't mean it will apply in this situation.

A fair point. I was just trying to emphasise that the OP shouldn't assume that the contract ended at the end of the fixed term, as he seemed keen to do! It's obviously always best to get independent legal advice on your specific circumstances.