R27 form HMRC

boydE

Iam an excutor of a will, how do i find out about pensions, annuities, basically the whole of page 2.
the deceased i haven't seen in 5 years and i am finding it difficult finding stuff to fill the form in.
i have applied for probate with a solicitor which hopefully be back son

John_Pierpoint

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/r27.pdf
This is the deceased's final tax return from 6th of April until the date of death.
You really need to check that previous whole years have been handled correctly or you are building on sand. Beware of PAYE "K" codes.
If the deceased is already on self assessment I would recommend continuing with that form of return as there is no joined up thinking within HMRC income tax section (expect ongoing delays, mistakes and confusion as a result of wholesale restructuring of the organisation - in my recent case, I have had to chase the records of the deceased through at least half a dozen different postal addresses and wait months to get a reply to the simplest of letters/returns. you don't get acknowledgements and so spend those weeks and months wondering if you are lost in a postal black hole).

A solicitor has no magic wand, though he may have privileged access to hot line telephone numbers, not available to members of the public. In the "good old days" he might have managed to create a personal relationship with the tax officials - computer systems don't do human relationships. As the executor you sign the forms and you carry the can.

Your initial posting does not make it clear if your problem is the complexity of the wealth of the deceased, or its paucity and lack of records.
Like the owner of a new home, you don't rush out and landscape the garden the day you move in. You make careful records and watch what comes up during "the executor's year".
You rummage about in the possessions of the deceased - I found a life insurance policy in a box of photos some 12 months after the death.
There are some deadlines:
HMRC start charging interest on IHT when the account is not presented and paid within the first 6 months. So it is a good idea to put in your account and get a grant of probate within the first 6 months, so you can get your hands on the assets.
Then you have to advertise for creditors (actually a solicitor can start this 2 - 3 month procedure in advance of probate, the London Gazette trusts solicitors, but not individuals with possible malice in mind.)
Disgruntled relatives and dependants have six months from probate (when the will is published to the whole world) in which to contest the "fairness" of the will.
Specific beneficiaries can claim interest if not paid their bequests within 12 months.
Here is a thread explaining (in its twists and turns) how to obtain information, when the records are not made available to the executor:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1613591
[Don't follow it to the end, as its original poster does not return to explain the eventual outcome]

One final thought - how is the solicitor charging you for his services?
If you are paying some three figure sum per hour, you may both need to make some hard nosed decisions about the cost effectiveness of some of your investigations. You also have the problem of working together effectively.
You are not going to pay the solicitor for rummaging in boxes of photos. When you find £10 of lost premium bonds in the name of the long dead spouse of the deceased, what are you going to do with them?
Suppose it was £500 ? There has to be a "cost effective" figure between the value of your time and the value of the solicitors time - unless you find "being an executor" an absorbing hobby.

Good luck,

John.

PS There is a set of three "Which?" guides. They overlap with each other in places,. but they can be used as a check list of what the solicitor's clerk is up to, even if you have decided not to DIY.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Giving-Inheriting-Which-Essential-Guides/dp/1844901181/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318391748&sr=1-10
It is vital that you use the latest versions, not some old version in the library, as even these are not updated for the "Condem" recent budgets.

boydE

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/r27.pdf
This is the deceased's final tax return from 6th of April until the date of death.
You really need to check that previous whole years have been handled correctly or you are building on sand. Beware of PAYE "K" codes.
If the deceased is already on self assessment I would recommend continuing with that form of return as there is no joined up thinking within HMRC income tax section (expect ongoing delays, mistakes and confusion as a result of wholesale restructuring of the organisation - in my recent case, I have had to chase the records of the deceased through at least half a dozen different postal addresses and wait months to get a reply to the simplest of letters/returns. you don't get acknowledgements and so spend those weeks and months wondering if you are lost in a postal black hole).

A solicitor has no magic wand, though he may have privileged access to hot line telephone numbers, not available to members of the public. In the "good old days" he might have managed to create a personal relationship with the tax officials - computer systems don't do human relationships. As the executor you sign the forms and you carry the can.

Your initial posting does not make it clear if your problem is the complexity of the wealth of the deceased, or its paucity and lack of records.
Like the owner of a new home, you don't rush out and landscape the garden the day you move in. You make careful records and watch what comes up during "the executor's year".
You rummage about in the possessions of the deceased - I found a life insurance policy in a box of photos some 12 months after the death.
There are some deadlines:
HMRC start charging interest on IHT when the account is not presented and paid within the first 6 months. So it is a good idea to put in your account and get a grant of probate within the first 6 months, so you can get your hands on the assets.
Then you have to advertise for creditors (actually a solicitor can start this 2 - 3 month procedure in advance of probate, the London Gazette trusts solicitors, but not individuals with possible malice in mind.)
Disgruntled relatives and dependants have six months from probate (when the will is published to the whole world) in which to contest the "fairness" of the will.
Specific beneficiaries can claim interest if not paid their bequests within 12 months.
Here is a thread explaining (in its twists and turns) how to obtain information, when the records are not made available to the executor:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1613591
[Don't follow it to the end, as its original poster does not return to explain the eventual outcome]

One final thought - how is the solicitor charging you for his services?
If you are paying some three figure sum per hour, you may both need to make some hard nosed decisions about the cost effectiveness of some of your investigations. You also have the problem of working together effectively.
You are not going to pay the solicitor for rummaging in boxes of photos. When you find £10 of lost premium bonds in the name of the long dead spouse of the deceased, what are you going to do with them?
Suppose it was £500 ? There has to be a "cost effective" figure between the value of your time and the value of the solicitors time - unless you find "being an executor" an absorbing hobby.

Good luck,

John.

PS There is a set of three "Which?" guides. They overlap with each other in places,. but they can be used as a check list of what the solicitor's clerk is up to, even if you have decided not to DIY.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Giving-Inheriting-Which-Essential-Guides/dp/1844901181/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318391748&sr=1-10
It is vital that you use the latest versions, not some old version in the library, as even these are not updated for the "Condem" recent budgets.

Thanks for your reply john

the deceased died last day of july.
i know the wealth, no property involved just ISA and shares and a small current account.
its records i am stuck with and what is what on the form, i have no experience with pensions/tax or anything.
i need some type of help, is it worth getting an accountant involved or the likes.
the deceased was retired

could it be worth phoning the help line?
or his tax office, they would know everything, would they?

John_Pierpoint

I will leave your specific questions for now, as there are other posters on here who know a lot more about income tax and its (mal) administration than I do.
[When my mother died, after half a dozen years of living with the after effects of a stroke, I thought I could re-open 6 years of her tax affairs. (for us ordinary mortals our creditors can go back 6 years, unless we are "North of the Border") - silly me, HMRC writes its own rules and relied upon them to not repay 400 quid]
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/about/deadlines-taxpayers.htm
It sounds like you are sorting out a typically modest estate of an elderly pensioner?
Were they still living in their house? Or were they in a care home or a prolonged stay in health care?
There are two critically useful documents that you really need to find.
The annual statement giving their pension and benefits, some of which like attendance allowance could be tax free.
Their notice of coding - just the state pension was more or less enough to put a pensioner into the tax net, depending on their age, let alone any other pensions they may have been receiving.
The [STRIKE]clerk[/STRIKE] computer, as a matter of course, add/subtract tax corrections to next years tax, rather than write to the pensioner saying "send us the money", regardless of the pensioner ticking the box to say "I want to settle up now".
They know what they are doing (perhaps) but you and the ageing pensioner are then rapidly losing the plot.

You will get much better detailed advice if you can post specific numbers for the deceased's annual income, its sources and the date of birth.

On the face of it you can, most probably, reclaim all the tax deducted for April May June and July.

However it is not unknown for aged persons to do things like "forgetting" to mention that their spouse has died and soldier on regardless.

boydE wrote: »

Deceased died last day of July.
No property involved. Council tax OK? (presumably we are both talking about what our American cousins would correctly call "real estate") So he was renting? (Deposit?)
Just ISA and shares and a small current account.Are you sure? You won't get the 10% company tax back on dividends but this pretends to be standard rate tax for personal income tax purposes.
Is it worth getting an accountant involved? How much do you want to pay - the advice here is free - some of it is very good.
Could it be worth phoning the help line? How many times do you want to press last-number-redial and eventually be told "you cannot phone us we will call you back" (sometime).
His tax office, they would know everything, would they?
Bit of a nebulous concept since computerisation - see my comments above about chasing the file round the country - long rant from me available on request:D Long ago I tried the idea of: "There is no point in us both keeping records, we will just use yours". It does not work. That was back in the days when I actually saw my file, complete with my schoolboy (aged 15) letter, getting back the tax on my Xmas holiday job. It was on the top of the pile. There is an extra statutory concession that requires HMRC to act in a timely manner or forego the tax, I doubt they would be keen to give you ammunition for such a claim.