Non-Payment of Community Charge

Bogart

Advice needed please.

I have had a court judgement for non-payment of community charge which resulted in the a bailiff calling, I wasn't home so he left a note.

I have called and made an offer to pay but he refuses to meet me at a time I can make to complete the paperwork (I work and can't get time off, he is only in my area on x day at y time). He has been very difficult and dismissive on the phone and it seems to me that he is now trying to prove a point in a "you have to do as I say" kind-of-way.

Our most recent conversation he said that as more than 5 days have passed since the original letter the council will probably be seeking further action.

Can anyone enlighten me what that further action is likely to be? As they have already taken me to court what are the next steps? I'm aware that they can go down the threaten with prison route but is there a step in between where I might be able to present my payment plan to a more reasonable audience and not this moron?

(incidentally my payment plan will clear the debt in two months)

TIA

whatatwit

Do you not get a lunch break at work, when you could pop out and meet with the bailiff?

**purpleprincess**

Hullo!

What will probably happen is if you can't sort it out with the bailiff, as in meet him to arrange etc then they will pass the debt back to the council. (This happens when the bailiff cannot do what he is required) This is probably what you want, but be aware that there will be extra charges on top of your council tax debt. These shouldn't be too extortionate though. Then, when the debt has been passed back you can make an arrangement with the council. It costs them money to take you back to court, so it makes sense for them to accept your arrangement, just make sure that you do pay it, and arrange to pay by Direct Debit for the new financial year!!!!;)

They can't send you to prison straight away, no matter what they tell you.

Any probs come back.

JaneD_3

I'm embarrassed to admit it but I once used to work for a bailiff company. From my experience, I would advise against dealing with the bailiff company at all, as they can charge for each visit the bailiff makes. Try to contact the recovery department of your local council directly.
Some councils will make an arrangement with you which will stop further bailiff charges as long as you keep to the arrangement. Other councils may insist you deal with the bailiff. If that happens, then I would recommend you go to the Citizens Advice Bureau and get them to deal with the bailiffs on your behalf. The bailiffs I used to work for would often try to intimidate the public as most people aren't aware of their rights, but when the CAB phoned or wrote then they usually agreed to whatever arrangement was offered. Hope this helps.

JaneD_3

Sorry, forgot to answer your question about the prison threat. Only a magistrate can order a comittal to prison and there would be a further court hearing before this happens. People are very rarely put in prison, even at that late stage the magistrate would rather agree a payment plan.

plumduff-2

Oh god, dont meet the bailiff especially at your home, they will be as nice as pie until they get in take a list of your goods, charge you a fortune for doing so and then demand payment in full or funny money every week...

Please please please, have a look on National Debtlines fantastic website, lok in the booklets section and their is one called bailiffs and council tax...

This will outline all your rights, which no one else will tell you about...

The bailiffs aim is get you to sign a walking possession agreement (WPA)... once this is in place their charges will escalate to about £200-£300... if they have not had entry into your home or levied on a car then they can only charge statutry costs of £39 maximum... so beleive me - it is not in your interests to meet them..

Read ND booklet... if they send the account back to the bailiffs, the worse that can happen is that court action is taken by the council - this action is called comittal... but in reality no one gets sent down... especially if you can show that you have been making payment to the arrears, so I advised you to make at least something off the debt every week... if it gets to court again one of two things will happen...

1. The CT staff will speak to you and arrange a repayment plan with you..

2. You go in front of the Judge and after a few questions you offer to repay the debt at £x per week... only if you have completely ignored the matter etc would the judge consider comittal hence the advice to start making payments..

But do this direct to the council.. cos the bailiffs may not send payments on to the council for some months...

plumduff-2

Oh god, dont meet the bailiff especially at your home, they will be as nice as pie until they get in take a list of your goods, charge you a fortune for doing so and then demand payment in full or funny money every week...

Please please please, have a look on National Debtlines fantastic website, lok in the booklets section and their is one called bailiffs and council tax...

This will outline all your rights, which no one else will tell you about...

The bailiffs aim is get you to sign a walking possession agreement (WPA)... once this is in place their charges will escalate to about £200-£300... if they have not had entry into your home or levied on a car then they can only charge statutry costs of £39 maximum... so beleive me - it is not in your interests to meet them..

Read ND booklet... if they send the account back to the bailiffs, the worse that can happen is that court action is taken by the council - this action is called comittal... but in reality no one gets sent down... especially if you can show that you have been making payment to the arrears, so I advised you to make at least something off the debt every week... if it gets to court again one of two things will happen...

1. The CT staff will speak to you and arrange a repayment plan with you..

2. You go in front of the Judge and after a few questions you offer to repay the debt at £x per week... only if you have completely ignored the matter etc would the judge consider comittal hence the advice to start making payments..

But do this direct to the council.. cos the bailiffs may not send payments on to the council for some months...

nottslass_2

couldn't agree more with what plumduff says, take a look at national debt lines website. if i were you i wouldn't bother contacting the bailiff at all ,they can only charge for two visits in respect of collecting council tax,the debt will then be returned to the council,work out what you can realistically afford to pay each week, then make an arrangement to pay direct with the council,and stick to it,if the worst happens and the council takes the matter back to court at least it will prove to the magistrate that you are making arrangements to pay. you can only be imprisioned for a council tax debt that you are "willfully refusing" to pay.

hope this helps and good luck

yummymummy79

Just to add, (having worked in a CT recovery section for 8 years), the probable action if the bailiffs return the debt to the council will be that a letter and some form of questionnaire will be sent out (if it wasn't before it went off to bailiffs) which will ask for a brief rundown of income and maybe main expenditure. You should still be able to come to a payment arrangement at this point but bear in mind you will be expected to make quite a hefty offer so the debt doesn't drag on for ages, as well as keeping up with your current year payments (if this isn't for the current year).

If you are working, then a good option is an Attachment of Earnings Order where a fixed percentage will be taken out of your salary each week/month before you receive it and sent directly to the council. Have a look at page 9 on here:
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/annex_c-3.pdf
to see current rates.

If this is not possible, or they do not accept the offer then next option is committal to prison proceedings. In reality this will involve a couple of letters first warning about it, then a summons being granted for a further court hearing (bear in mind extra costs go on at these stages), and at the court hearing you will prob have a chance to put your budget to the judge and come up with a payment plan.

I wouldn't recommend letting it get this far. Normally it is hardcore non-payers or people who bury head in the sand that get to this stage, and you are looking at extra costs being added as well (£105 springs to mind from somewhere?).

Try and come up with reasonable payment arrangement, or offer deductions from earnings.

HTH

Bogart

Thanks for your advice everyone.

Something else has occurred that I think just illustrates the sort of behaviour people need to be wary of, and which I wouldn't have known about if I hadn't been referred to the National Debt Helpline website.

After another discussion with the bailiff he (very grudgingly) told me to send a cheque to the office within 48 hours, which I agreed to do. This evening I've just come home to find another note through my door which advises they attended to remove goods and there is a charge of £167.50 been added to my "bill".

From what I can make out this is way in excess of reasonable even if I hadn't already made a verbal agreement. It seems to me that the only reason he wanted to meet me was to get access to my house on the basis that "I had to sign something".

I'll be paying the original amount but they can whistle for the rest.

kevster1009

You could try to get your local elected member from the council to discuss your case for you. the council seem to take notice of these rather than some other forms of 3rd party.