Temporary worker and holiday entitlement

Spendless

The company where I have been working via a recruitment agency for the past year are taking me on their books on a short term contract. :j It's until the end of the year. This is cos the company is re-tendering for a new contract and IF they get it then they MAY keep me on but as yet, no-one knows.

The contract I have been sent says
about holiday entitlement
employees joining the company the following entitlement will apply
Jan-Oct- 2 days per month
Nov & Dec -1.5 days per month

so to me I should get 6 days for Oct joining.
BUT
underneath it says
'Temporary workers will not be entitled to take holiday leave until they have reached 3 months service. Entitlement will be calculated from their start date'.

However, my contract doesn't last 3 months. It ends Dec 31st. Even if they take me on from Jan, their hol year runs Jan-Dec and they don't allow hols to carry forward. The company closes down from Xmas Eve till Jan 2nd, and 3 days are taken off employees AL entitlement. Will I get any paid AL?

paddedjohn

If they wont allow you to take any leave you build up in your time there they must pay you for it in your final pay packet.

Spendless

paddedjohn wrote: »

If they wont allow you to take any leave you build up in your time there they must pay you for it in your final pay packet.

Thanks. :)Would that be the case even if they do keep me on from Jan 1st as in that case my start date is considered to be October when I started with them on a temporary contract?

scheming_gypsy

paddedjohn wrote: »

If they wont allow you to take any leave you build up in your time there they must pay you for it in your final pay packet.

even if she hasn't built any up as she's a temporary worker, working less than three months?

paddedjohn

even a temp worker will accrue holidays in 3 months/10 weeks

liney

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

even if she hasn't built any up as she's a temporary worker, working less than three months?

All workers accrue holidays from day 1: it is Statutory.

LittleVoice

Spendless wrote: »

The company where I have been working via a recruitment agency for the past year are taking me on their books on a short term contract. :j It's until the end of the year. This is cos the company is re-tendering for a new contract and IF they get it then they MAY keep me on but as yet, no-one knows.

The contract I have been sent says
about holiday entitlement
employees joining the company the following entitlement will apply
Jan-Oct- 2 days per month
Nov & Dec -1.5 days per month

so to me I should get 6 days for Oct joining.
BUT
underneath it says
'Temporary workers will not be entitled to take holiday leave until they have reached 3 months service. Entitlement will be calculated from their start date'.

However, my contract doesn't last 3 months. It ends Dec 31st. Even if they take me on from Jan, their hol year runs Jan-Dec and they don't allow hols to carry forward. The company closes down from Xmas Eve till Jan 2nd, and 3 days are taken off employees AL entitlement. Will I get any paid AL?

First - if your contract was previously with the agency and you are now starting with on a direct contract with the company, ensure you are paid for any untaken holiday when you receive your final pay. Your entitlement should have been 12.07% for all the hours you have worked as a temp. From that deduct the hours holiday you have been paid. (If you took holiday and weren't paid, then ignore that of course.)

Second - if you are not going to continue working with them after 31 December, they must pay you the correct proportion of your holiday entitlement when you leave. (More on that later.)

Third - if their holiday year runs January to December and, in due course, you find you are going to continue into 2012, they must allow you to take your holiday before 31 December. The Christmas bank holidays would not account for all that is due to you.

Fourth - The holiday entitlement for someone working a whole year adds up to 23. For a full time (five or more days a week) worker, that is less than the statutory minimum entitlement so not lawful. Check that bank holidays are in addition to that.

Fifth - if bank holidays are in addition, that's another 8 days a year which would bring a full-time worker to more than the statutory minimum and therefore lawful.

Sixth - The majority of bank holidays occur in the January to May period, so are disproportionately available to people starting before June. When working out holidays for people starting in the year, this is not fair - all holiday has to be pro rated to the whole year.

Seventh - Find out what they are actually offering to someone who works for a whole year - bank holidays (if separate from what you have been told about holiday entitlement) and holiday that can be taken at any other agreed time. You are entitled to proportionate holiday - they can't say you don't work a complete month (ie October if that is the month you start) and so earn not holiday in that time.

Eighth - ask here again if you have any doubts about how they calculate holidays.

Spendless

LittleVoice wrote: »

First - if your contract was previously with the agency and you are now starting with on a direct contract with the company, ensure you are paid for any untaken holiday when you receive your final pay. Your entitlement should have been 12.07% for all the hours you have worked as a temp. From that deduct the hours holiday you have been paid. (If you took holiday and weren't paid, then ignore that of course.)

Second - if you are not going to continue working with them after 31 December, they must pay you the correct proportion of your holiday entitlement when you leave. (More on that later.)

Third - if their holiday year runs January to December and, in due course, you find you are going to continue into 2012, they must allow you to take your holiday before 31 December. The Christmas bank holidays would not account for all that is due to you.

Fourth - The holiday entitlement for someone working a whole year adds up to 23. For a full time (five or more days a week) worker, that is less than the statutory minimum entitlement so not lawful. Check that bank holidays are in addition to that.

Fifth - if bank holidays are in addition, that's another 8 days a year which would bring a full-time worker to more than the statutory minimum and therefore lawful.

Sixth - The majority of bank holidays occur in the January to May period, so are disproportionately available to people starting before June. When working out holidays for people starting in the year, this is not fair - all holiday has to be pro rated to the whole year.

Seventh - Find out what they are actually offering to someone who works for a whole year - bank holidays (if separate from what you have been told about holiday entitlement) and holiday that can be taken at any other agreed time. You are entitled to proportionate holiday - they can't say you don't work a complete month (ie October if that is the month you start) and so earn not holiday in that time.

Eighth - ask here again if you have any doubts about how they calculate holidays.

Thany you for your reply.
1, I've already sorted that with the agency. I recently took some hols that used up everything accrued upto that point. Any left over will be in my final salary.

2,- Ok, at minute that is unsure.

3, Yes that is how their hol year runs.

4, Bank hols ARE in addition to the 23 days

5, See above

6, I did see a thread on mse about that sometime ago but never found out what the conclusion was.

7, That's in my original post. 23 days plus 8 BHs (though they gave an additional one this year for Royal wedding). If you start Jan-Oct they pro-rata it as 2 days per month, Nov to Dec 1.5 days.

8, My query is more about the clause about temp workers not being able to take hols till 3 months have gone, cos 3 months is past when this contract is to and even if I'm kept on a new holiday year ahs started and I can't carry the hols over. I hadn't considered that this also takes into account Xmas Day and Boxing day, till your reply. I will take this up with them next week.

LittleVoice

Spendless wrote: »

6, I did see a thread on mse about that sometime ago but never found out what the conclusion was.

7, That's in my original post. 23 days plus 8 BHs (though they gave an additional one this year for Royal wedding). If you start Jan-Oct they pro-rata it as 2 days per month, Nov to Dec 1.5 days.

8, My query is more about the clause about temp workers not being able to take hols till 3 months have gone, cos 3 months is past when this contract is to and even if I'm kept on a new holiday year ahs started and I can't carry the hols over. I hadn't considered that this also takes into account Xmas Day and Boxing day, till your reply. I will take this up with them next week.

6 - The holiday entitlement has to be taken as a whole and pro-rated for someone working a part year.

7 - I'd say that as the Royal Wedding bank holiday was additional and outside your employment time, it could be seen as a special gesture on behalf of the employer for people actually employed at that time. They presumably will do the same for the extra bank holiday next year too. They may want to say that holiday is accrued at the rate of 2 days for 10 months and 1.5 days for 2 months but that is not a fair proportion for people starting during the year. People starting after the end of May in particular would be unfairly treated in respect of bank holidays too.

We have now ascertained that in a "normal" year, a full-time worker receives 31 days holiday. A rough proportion for your entitlement would be to divide that by 52 (weeks in the year) and multiply by the number of weeks you will be employed up to 31 December. Deduct the Christmas holidays from that.

Unless they close down for a substantial amount of time over Christmas, you will have accrued more holiday than you would take if they did not allow you to take any more. That is not lawful - as long as you have requested the holiday with suficient notice.

They are allowed to say when you can take the holiday but you must be allowed to take it though some can be allowed to be taken over (I'm talking of the law, not the company's stated policy.) Their policy cannot override the law so somone starting work within the final 3 months of the holiday year must be allowed to take holiday to meet the requirements of the WTRs.

One way they could try to get round this would be to say your contract terminated on 31 December and pay you for the accrued holiday and then start a new contract on 1 January - when you would have a whole holiday year but where their rules would mean you couldn't have any holiday till April!

Spendless

LittleVoice wrote: »

6 - The holiday entitlement has to be taken as a whole and pro-rated for someone working a part year.

7 - I'd say that as the Royal Wedding bank holiday was additional and outside your employment time, it could be seen as a special gesture on behalf of the employer for people actually employed at that time. They presumably will do the same for the extra bank holiday next year too. They may want to say that holiday is accrued at the rate of 2 days for 10 months and 1.5 days for 2 months but that is not a fair proportion for people starting during the year. People starting after the end of May in particular would be unfairly treated in respect of bank holidays too.

We have now ascertained that in a "normal" year, a full-time worker receives 31 days holiday. A rough proportion for your entitlement would be to divide that by 52 (weeks in the year) and multiply by the number of weeks you will be employed up to 31 December. Deduct the Christmas holidays from that.

Unless they close down for a substantial amount of time over Christmas, you will have accrued more holiday than you would take if they did not allow you to take any more. That is not lawful - as long as you have requested the holiday with suficient notice.

They are allowed to say when you can take the holiday but you must be allowed to take it though some can be allowed to be taken over (I'm talking of the law, not the company's stated policy.) Their policy cannot override the law so somone starting work within the final 3 months of the holiday year must be allowed to take holiday to meet the requirements of the WTRs.

One way they could try to get round this would be to say your contract terminated on 31 December and pay you for the accrued holiday and then start a new contract on 1 January - when you would have a whole holiday year but where their rules would mean you couldn't have any holiday till April!

They close down on Xmas Eve or the nearest Friday (so this year it is Fri 23 Dec) and open up on Jan 2nd unless that's a public holiday or w/end, in which case they'd open on the next day that was a Mon or non public hol whichever came first. Employees have 3 days deducted from their AL (their 23 days)to cover the days inbetween xmas and NY that aren't bank hols or weekends.

Your last point is something I think may happen, but if they take me on from Jan then unless it is as a temp worker again (and I suspect it wouldn't be as they'll have a shiny new contract for the next few years) I would be able to take hols as and when, it is only temporary workers where they say cannot take hols for 3 months.

LittleVoice

As you say the company "are taking me on their books" rather than "haven taken", I'm looking at a start date of 10 October. In that case the rough calculation of your entitlement is 31/52 * 12 (assuming working up to 31 December) = 7.16 days. (This can be rounded up, not down.)

The Christmas holiday reduces this by 5 days (and perhaps the 0.16 day is achieved by an early finish on 23 December. You are therefore due another 2 days holiday before 31 December.

If you actually started on Monday, 3 December, then adjust the calculation for the increased entitlement and it becomes 7.75 days entitlement (for quarter of a year, 13 weeks).

By the way another method they could use is to terminate your employment on 23 December (so you actually accrue a little less) and start again on 3 January. The gap would be enough to break your continuity of service. If they terminated your employment on 31 December and re-started you on 3 January, your continuous employment would run from the October date.