underpaid by 6k

slim1347

Hi, just a quick one, if any one could help or share some info i would very much apreciate.

so i work for a company, names will not be given, we are a field of technician's currently running at about 80ish. my company have since obtained a new contract with a new company and has agreed to take on board there staff as part of the deal,
problem is that the 20ish new staff are aprox 6k a year better off in wages then we are, legal words state that the company have to keep them on board with there salary from previouse employment, so my gripe is that these guys are getting 6k more for the same flaming job as i am doing with 4 years less experience then my self which is a bit of a bummer.

is there anything that we can do to up our wages, we do not have a union or anything like that but any info would certantly help

thank you

SarEl

No. Sorry. Their wages are protected by TUPE and the employer must (at least for now) maintain those wages. It gives you no bargaining power to get an increase.

CapJ

SarEl wrote: »

No. Sorry. Their wages are protected by TUPE and the employer must (at least for now) maintain those wages. It gives you no bargaining power to get an increase.

Having someone earning 6K more than you for doing the same work doesn't give you bargaining power?

If it is public (=useable) knowledge - of course it does.

OP how did you find this out? Has it been announced or are you not supposed to know?

This is perhaps something to push in the year end evaluation process especially if you get a good rating. Is the work that these employees were doing similar to the work you do know? Because if so it is evidence the market pays more. BTW you might not got anything and probably won't get 6K more, be prepared to settle for less.

skintandscared_2

How do you know what they're earning? We have about 40 secretaries in our office and I'd be willing to bet that none of us are paid the same wage. I have no idea - it's something you just don't discuss.

BillTrac

What will probably happen is that the employees earning more won't get any rises until everyone is on a similar pay rate

RadoJo

Which wage is closer to the industry standard? Presumably you were happy enough with your wages until you found this out, so I think claiming that you're being 'underpaid' is a little misleading. You can certainly ask for a raise, but they are under no obligation to give you one and it depends how annoyed you are as to whether you carry on working for them.

SarEl

CapJ wrote: »

Having someone earning 6K more than you for doing the same work doesn't give you bargaining power?
.

How unusual do you think this is? Because it is actually common. Under TUPE, at least for now, the employees conditions of service must remain intact. And that means that if they are on a grade or scale then any pay rises contractually obliged must also be paid. But it certainly doesn't give anyone else the right to more money - in actual fact it makes the TUPE'd staff more vulnerable. Financial considerations is a valid criteria for redundancy. So if you cost more then you may be much more likley to be selected if redundancies come around. And TUPE protections do not last for ever - and in some cases, not long at all. But there is little likelihood of an employer giving their existing staff a pay rise if they didn't pay them more before. On that basis, there is no bargaining power - the employer is acting totally within the law. They do not have to pay their existing workers £6k more - so why would they? It doesn't matter what anyone knows - it isn't useable knowledge.

CapJ

SarEl wrote: »

How unusual do you think this is? Because it is actually common. Under TUPE, at least for now, the employees conditions of service must remain intact. And that means that if they are on a grade or scale then any pay rises contractually obliged must also be paid. But it certainly doesn't give anyone else the right to more money - in actual fact it makes the TUPE'd staff more vulnerable. Financial considerations is a valid criteria for redundancy. So if you cost more then you may be much more likley to be selected if redundancies come around. And TUPE protections do not last for ever - and in some cases, not long at all. But there is little likelihood of an employer giving their existing staff a pay rise if they didn't pay them more before. On that basis, there is no bargaining power - the employer is acting totally within the law. They do not have to pay their existing workers £6k more - so why would they? It doesn't matter what anyone knows - it isn't useable knowledge.

I can't understand this argument. You seem to be saying employers have no legal duty to give a pay rise therefore they won't and there is no point asking for it. Every pay rise I had from my employers they had no legal duty to give me. I still got it. I still get my bonuses that have no legal obligation to be paid.

There is no legal obligation to pay more than minimum wage and yet most of the population are on a higher wage.

The point is to use the knowledge that you have to argue to your employer. You can argue fairness or market value. The employer can reject these arguments but that doesn't mean they can't be made. And the reality is there is little to lose in making the arguments, if done in the right way, and everything to win.

hcb42

it will go the other way.

Once tuped 120 people, some were on similar amount difference and this was like £13K v £19K and shift allowances on top were over generous.

Guess which group wasnt there a year later. There was a reason they were tuped, unfortunately for them, to remove their cost!

SarEl

I didn't say there was no point asking for it - I said that it gave you no bargaining power. If you could have argued for a £6k pay rise last week and got it, then you can today. If you had no likelihood of getting it last week you know nothing today that is any more valuable a a bargaining tool. Ask - but don't hold your breath.

InsideInsurance

skintandscared wrote: »

How do you know what they're earning? We have about 40 secretaries in our office and I'd be willing to bet that none of us are paid the same wage. I have no idea - it's something you just don't discuss.

To be honest I think this is something that companies rely on and whilst I think that salaries shouldnt be automatically public knowledge I do disagree with this culture that to discuss salary is "unprofessional" and that if people want to talk about it they should be allowed to.

To the OP - salaries tend to be individually negotiated once you get off the factory floor and there is certainly no requirement for everyone doing the same job to get the same pay.

Back when I was a perm employee I found myself in the situation where one of my direct reports came to me to complain that their salary was too low for the job they were doing but little did they know they were actually on £1,000 more than me.

You can either try and negotiate a better salary or you can look to move to another company for a higher salary. You will certainly always get a bigger pay rise by moving company than moving within a company. The little chat certainly inspired me to move on (though I knew I was grossly underpaid for the role before it) and a few more moves afterwards I am now certainly at the upper end of "market rate"