EON's rubbish computer ....

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena

Sorry it wasn't clear .

Let me start again.

Even though there may be some credit on accounts after the summer quarter, if the Direct Debit is not covering the estimated usage until the next spring review then the payments will increase.

From what you have said dshart, it's possible your DD was going to stay the same at your spring review, but then we had the September price increase and this could be the reason the Direct Debit was re-calculated and needed to increase.

This is only speculation though and I can't discuss specific accounts on the open forum as I don't have the details and it's against the rules.

Helena

victor2

That makes a little more sense Helena, thanks.
As backfoot says, most users want a realistic monthly cost so that they don't get hit by unexpected bills.
I was with PowerGen/E.On for many years and on fixed tariffs for most of that. I only left in May when my current contract ended and E.On had nothing competitive to offer. For my sins, I am now with EDF and it has been a nightmare, as well documented elsewhere on this forum - I'm on my fourth DD "adjustment" in as many months!

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena

Thanks backfoot,

In the old days we used to take the customers 12 month usage and divide this in to 12 monthly payments.

This worked out to became more and more inaccurate because of price increases and people's consumption patterns changing (people working more and more shift work, more people living with parents - so usage for the home increases all sorts of things) and would leave customers with big credits/debits to sort out.

The new way is more accurate and as we have said the Direct Debit is only reviewed outside of the spring review if the usage changes or the prices change. We have less customers querying their Direct Debit now, under the new system than under the old one. I understand, though, that when getting into the detail of it, it is more difficult to get your head around - it's not as easy for us to explain either.

The method we now use helps to reflect peoples change in circumstances.

There is an MSE link here also, explaining different refund policies of suppliers.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits

OFGEM brought in a ruling that suppliers had to fairly give customer their credits back, but left it to suppliers to interpret - each one has interpreted differently.

Helena

backfoot

Thanks Helena,

A lot of what you say regarding detection of significant changed usage patterns and including price change is fine. I actually expect that.

Putting that aside, unless I am still not understanding it, it is the forcing of a spring zero balance and the seasonal adjustments which is what I and other posters (like DSHart) are worried about.

It really shouldn't be difficult to model my earlier example. That assumes there are no peculiar consumption changes. There are no price increases and 2/3 of my consumption is from December to April.My annual bill is £1200. Assume the other 1/3 is evenly spread. I join Eon on the 1st December.

What we want to understand is:

1) How much is my DD from 1/12 to 31/3 ?

2) How much is my DD from 1/4 to 30/9 ?

3) How much is my DD from 1/10 to 31/12 ?

What DirectDebacle is trying to get from you is exactly what explanation is given in the Terms and Conditions to describe the process.

Thanks.:)

DirectDebacle

backfoot wrote: »

Thanks Helena,


What DirectDebacle is trying to get from you is exactly what explanation is given in the Terms and Conditions to describe the process.

Thanks.:)

Very well put backfoot.

Helena,

Is Eon policy of zero spring balance part of the T & C's of supply in respect of tariffs paid by DD ?

I cannot find any mention of this when viewing your on line T & C's.

Please do not supply any more links to 'explanations' or FAQ. I simply want to find the part of the T & C's that contain the condition, if it exists. If it doesn't then please say so.

Thanks.

DirectDebacle

backfoot wrote: »

Helena/ Malc,

First off,thank you very much for trying to explain this to the interested parties. The regulars know how helpful you both are trying to be here and always.

I have to say,you have been dealt a rotten hand here. I will focus on impacts and leave others to pick up the Licence Conditions implications.

Wholeheartedly agree. The Eon reps are between a rock and a hard place. I have been waiting over 18 months for an answer to the question of whether Eon policy of a spring zero balance is part of their T & C's. See here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2262031

If it isn't then that would be absolutely outrageous behaviour.

Eon would have been mis-representing a policy as a contractual right to their customers, in order to enforce it. Apparently not caring what difficulty it caused customers by so doing.

The information is that this policy was introduced by Eon in April 2009.

In January, 2010, in an attempt to ensure suppliers properly managed DD accounts, Ofgem introduced a Standard Licence Condition setting out the conduct suppliers must follow.

If the above is the case then Eon have driven a coach and horses through their licence conditions as well.

Unless Eon can show to a customer that their policy is actually a binding T & C of the supply contract, between themselves and the customer, then it cannot be enforced.

I would recommend that any customer who does not agree with the changes made to their DD as a result of it, complain and insist that the original terms of the DD they agreed to are followed.

After 2 1/2 years of following this policy it will not be easy.

macman

An EDF meter reader told me yesterday that EDF are moving to a policy of 6 monthly rather than quarterly billing. Is there any truth in this?

Lester_Squair

I abandoned the DD route and now pay quarterly because I found I was regularly having the DD amount increased DESPITE being in credit year on year by hundreds of pounds.

Recently Npower has a price rise. Anyone with Npower - check your bill. They seem to be keen on skewing the figures to their advantage . Despite a meter reading only 3 days after the PC date the estimated reading at PC date resulted in apparent usage rocketing by as much a six times the daily average for the preceding 86 days - OK there may have been an argument for some seasonal adjustment but not a good one!

Also Npower's computer doesn't seem to follow their own guidance - and that of the lovely Jill Halfpenny! - in calculating accounts. The arithmetic is unfathomable. Check and double check. Sometimes it is only a a few 10s of pence out, sometimes a few quid. Over their customer base this could be several tens of Millions of pounds per annum!

I don't know why if in 20 minutes with XL I can produce a spreadsheet to calculate my bill using their own guidance, they can't get in right?

meggsy

A new system strikes again ?


http://thebrighterenergydebate.npower.com/customer.aspx

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena

I can confirm that our policy does not form part of a customers Terms and Conditions and we cannot see that there are specific licence conditions that mean that our policy must form part of them.


Helena