Help with my work rights please

chinchilla1

Hello,

I'm currently signed off work for stress, depression and anxiety brought on by my working conditions (I'm a teacher). I've been receiving treatment via my GP & other specialists in the field and am making slow progress. Work have been quite supportive so far, and have told me not to rush back and to take my time to make sure I am 100% ready when I do return (to avoid relapses).

However, on Friday I received an email from the Personnel department in my place of work which rather took me aback. The email stated,

If I can speak frankly, I really don’t think the current situation is really helping you recover so I’d like to to come and see you again in order to discuss the possibility of you beginning a phased return to work

and also

You have been unwell for 7 months now and it’s difficult for the college to sustain this absence when there doesn’t seem to be any sign of your health improving and it is also not good for you to be out of work for this length of time. Could you please let me know which dates you could be available to meet with me next week as I’d like to discuss this as a matter of urgency?

I would like to know if they are within their rights to make such assumptions about my health & about the treatment I am receiving. The bottom line is this email has increased my stress levels ten fold as I feel as though they are pressurising me into returning to work/ resigning when I am not yet ready.

I really don't know how to respond to this email.

Any advice regarding this matter would be helpful on what I should say/do to go forward with this.

many thanks
Chinchilla x

Cheeky_Monkey

I think you'd be wise to agree to the meeting. In fact, I'm not sure you can refuse their request.

Don't forget, as far as I know, they can dismiss you on capability grounds after such a long absence (am happy to be corrected by those 'in the know').

Sambucus_Nigra

Which bit took you aback? And what assumptions have they made?

What exactly do you expect? To be off sick forever? A year? 2?

The college have to do something about either getting you back to work [a phased return] or letting you go on competency/capability in that you are unable to work due to stress.

Are you able to go back to work on a phased return? If not, then you have to expect that they will want to let you go.

SarEl

They are certainly within their rights to question your continued absence, yes. After several months of sickness they can certainly review the situation - and must do so if they intend, as I think this e-mail politely avoids mentioning, but is a real possibility, to decide that you are not returning within an acceptable timescale and may consdier dismissal on capability grounds. You would be very wise to co-operate fully. They cannot force you to return against medical advice - but if they follow the correct process they can certainly, at this stage, move to dismiss if you cannot return.

TTC40

You have referred to your working conditions bringing on your illness. They should absolutely be talking to you about what can be done to improve this to assist your health & then hopefully return to work (and normal life).

ohreally

If you are a member of a trade union, forward the email on to an appropriate officer.

Is HR working in conjunction with occupational health?
Have support mechanisms been discussed?

Uncertain

SarEl wrote: »

They cannot force you to return against medical advice - but if they follow the correct process they can certainly, at this stage, move to dismiss if you cannot return.

In general terms yes however I would strongly suggest you carefully check the exact terms of your sick pay scheme.

Many schemes are "discretionary" which doesn't really guarantee you anything. However some contracts (quite often in education) can give an absolute right to extensive sick pay, obviously subject to you complying with the terms and conditions. If this is the case they have little to gain from dismissing you whilst you are still entitled to sick pay as they would have to pay it anyway.

My normal advice in these situations is to co-operate but to do so as slowly as is reasonably possible. They may well ask you to see an occupational health specialist and it would be best to agree. You could also suggest they seek a report from your own doctor. You have an absolute right to see such a report BEFORE it is sent. A doctor once commented to me that the process of getting such a report can take many weeks if he feels it is in his patient's best interests!

I would seek advice from your union (if you are a member) otherwise your home insurance may well provide access to free legal advice.

lizzywig

Four years ago I was signed off work with stress and depression, part work related and part personal life related. I can't imagine what it would be like for work to be the problem but if it is then they do need to work out how they can help or else how would you ever go back. I do understand how distressing it is having the prospect of going back. All you can think about is what other people will think of you and how you will manage working all day every day again. My work did a phased return and I started off doing 11 - 1pm every day for a week, then 11am - 2pm the following week, then 9am - 1pm the following week and so on. All of a sudden I was going to have to do 9am - 3pm and felt it too much so I told them and they let me repeat a week and then I upped an hour the following week. I genuinely felt that getting back to work helped me but not everyone would feel the same.

From reading what your work have sent you I can see 100% why you are feeling distressed. One moment your work are being all supportive and the next you feel as if you're being attacked. Is it your boss/immediate colleagues being supportive. Remember that it's HR's job to do everything by the book and so they're not going to be telling you to take as much time as you need, instead they'll be finding out how they can help but it's easy to take this as criticism. When I was signed off HR came to see me and their assessment was that I should be off. In the end the company had an assistance programme which helped me get back to work.

I do think though that the email wasn't very well worded and actually didn't sound very professional. This would have only served to distress you further, I understand that.

If you think that you do want to keep your job then meet up with them and show willingness, not because you have to go back to work right now but because you want to show them that your job is important to you. Try to take it one step at a time and don't think of them rushing you, just try to see it as a way of complying with their requests. Sometimes working in baby steps helps. If your HR see that you are still very distressed I can't imagine they would force the issue. I'm afraid I don't know the legal side of things but this website looks like it might help you
http://www.yourworkhealth.com/.

Please seriously think about talking to HR because if you cooperate then they are more likely to help you than to cause you further distress. Imagine how much worse it could get if they do try to get rid of you. This would be a quick way of nipping that in the bud.

SarEl

Uncertain wrote: »

In general terms yes however I would strongly suggest you carefully check the exact terms of your sick pay scheme.

Many schemes are "discretionary" which doesn't really guarantee you anything. However some contracts (quite often in education) can give an absolute right to extensive sick pay, obviously subject to you complying with the terms and conditions. If this is the case they have little to gain from dismissing you whilst you are still entitled to sick pay as they would have to pay it anyway.

My normal advice in these situations is to co-operate but to do so as slowly as is reasonably possible. They may well ask you to see an occupational health specialist and it would be best to agree. You could also suggest they seek a report from your own doctor. You have an absolute right to see such a report BEFORE it is sent. A doctor once commented to me that the process of getting such a report can take many weeks if he feels it is in his patient's best interests!

I would seek advice from your union (if you are a member) otherwise your home insurance may well provide access to free legal advice.

I wouldn't disagree but you know what? Most contractual sick pay in the sector is 12 months maximum. And the avaerage period of time to complete a capability dismissal? Yes, you guessed correctly - from start to finish, about five months.

Hammyman

chinchilla1 wrote: »

I would like to know if they are within their rights to make such assumptions about my health & about the treatment I am receiving. The bottom line is this email has increased my stress levels ten fold as I feel as though they are pressurising me into returning to work/ resigning when I am not yet ready.

I really don't know how to respond to this email.

Any advice regarding this matter would be helpful on what I should say/do to go forward with this.

many thanks
Chinchilla x

Yes they are within their rights. You have no right to indefinite leave. They can ascertain what your status is, if you are likely to return soon and if not, whether to terminate your contract on the grounds of ill health.

So whilst as it has been said that they can't force you to return to work, they're not required to keep you on either and yes, you can be let go when on sick.

KiKi

Hi Chinchilla, sorry to hear you're not well.

I agree that their emails have used some words which are blunt and seem to make some assumptions about you.

However, despite how you feel, they are running a business, and you cannot be off sick indefinitely. Whilst it's a horrible situation for you, they cannot continue to pay you and employ you if they have no idea of when you may be returning to work.

Co-operate fully. If you cannot return to work, then you may be dismissed on capability grounds (there are procedures they have to follow for this). If you can do a phased return to work, then that would be a positive step.

Their email wording is unfortunate, but it's unfair on the college / school to expect them to just wait with no idea of when you're coming back, and no prospect of currently returning.

Sorry that's not what you want to hear. I hope you get better very soon.
KiKi