Job/Pay help

Hello123_2

Hi everyone,

I need some help about my new job as don't really know where to turn for advice.

I am a recent graduate and havn't had much luck finding a job since June. About 1 month ago I applied for a job which was advertised online...went to 2 gruelling interviews and got made an offer to start on the Monday.

Obviously I was over the moon but did not know about pay (advert didn't mention it and I did not ask in interview as I wasn't sure if correct etique). As long as I was paid minimum wage I didn't mind, I was just so happy to finally have a job.

Anyway, started last Monday...job was ok. Went in Tuesday and decided to ask about pay. He said I would have to register myself as self-employed so would be responsible for paying my own tax/n.i and won't be paid holiday or sick pay.

He said he will pay me 10% of whatever I charge out. He said at first I may not even earn anything and told me to look at this as a 'work experience phase'. I asked how long this will be for and he said could be 1 month, maybe more.

I also asked him what the 'average' charge out is and he said it depends on the work. Could be £5k a month could be £20k a month - it all depends on the work coming in. He said it will be very little at first as I will be learning but as I progress I will earn more and more. The hours are set at 9-5.30pm - I do not get to chose the hours I work and I have not got anything in writing.

So, my question is should I just ride it out and hope I earn some money as I progress & just be grateful to have a job, or does it sound a bit strange being self-employed?

I would be so grateful for any help. Thanks

scheming_gypsy

the only thing it should 'sound like' is the door closing behind you as you run for the hills.

Jarndyce

Hello123 wrote: »

So, my question is should I just ride it out and hope I earn some money as I progress & just be grateful to have a job, or does it sound a bit strange being self-employed?

You don't have a job!

You have agreed to be self employed with no guarantee of any income at all.

KiKi

There's nothing strange about being self-employed, but it means that you are billing them for work undertaken - and as it appears to be commission-based, you may earn nothing.

You do not have an employed job. You are working as a self-employed person. However, you should look at the HMRC web pages. HMRC define what is an employed job and what is self-employed. If your job doesn't meet the criteria for self-employed, then the company should be employing you. The reason they *may* want you to be self-employed is that they can avoid tax, NI, any employee benefits, and any legal obligations to you as far as your employment protection goes.

If you have to do set hours, if you are not allowed to work for others, if you are accountable to them with objectives and they are directing your work, if you are using their equipment, if you have to book leave and can't send in someone else to do your job, then the chances are that this job is not one which should be done on a self-employed basis, and HMRC would probably be quite interested to know this.

Unless you're sure it's a legit self-employed role, I'd be running for the hills.

KiKi

Hello123_2

KiKi wrote: »

There's nothing strange about being self-employed, but it means that you are billing them for work undertaken - and as it appears to be commission-based, you may earn nothing.

You do not have an employed job. You are working as a self-employed person. However, you should look at the HMRC web pages. HMRC define what is an employed job and what is self-employed. If your job doesn't meet the criteria for self-employed, then the company should be employing you. The reason they *may* want you to be self-employed is that they can avoid tax, NI, any employee benefits, and any legal obligations to you as far as your employment protection goes.

If you have to do set hours, if you are not allowed to work for others, if you are accountable to them with objectives and they are directing your work, if you are using their equipment, if you have to book leave and can't send in someone else to do your job, then the chances are that this job is not one which should be done on a self-employed basis, and HMRC would probably be quite interested to know this.

Unless you're sure it's a legit self-employed role, I'd be running for the hills.


KiKi

I've asked him why I have to be self-employed and he said it's for my benefit - so I can earn more than minimum wage and when I am fully trained the sky is the limit re earnings.

I would be working at the office 9-5.30pm and using their computer & printer, and would have to book leave.

This is for a solicitors office btw which makes me think it must be legal?

InsideInsurance

There are commission only jobs that good people make a damned good income from.... I'd argue that the vast majority of people don't.

The law is not black and white, it has many shades of grey. Just because its a legal firm (a) doesn't mean it isn't jet black and (b) even if it isnt outright illegal doesn't mean that they arent choosing to sail very close to the wind.

Idiophreak

Hello123 wrote: »

I've asked him why I have to be self-employed and he said it's for my benefit - so I can earn more than minimum wage and when I am fully trained the sky is the limit re earnings.

Wow, he sounds generous!

KiKi

Hello123 wrote: »

I've asked him why I have to be self-employed and he said it's for my benefit - so I can earn more than minimum wage and when I am fully trained the sky is the limit re earnings.

Why can't he pay you min wage plus commission? Commission isn't restricted to those who are self-employed.

This is for a solicitors office btw which makes me think it must be legal?

I wouldn't bet on it. As another poster said, it might not be outright illegal, but it sounds very dodgy to me. You know that they could get rid of you with no notice, don't you, if you're self-employed? At any time, no matter how long you work for them.

If you ARE going to be SE, then you need professional indemnity insurance for yourself ASAP, you need to set yourself up as SE with HMRC, you need to keep records for 6 years, you need to invoice, keep all receipts etc. You need to fill in a tax return each year (easily done online). On the upside, you can offset expenses against your tax.

Also, you need to consider whether or not you want to be SE as a sole trader or a limited company. With a limited company if you make a mistake and are sued, the liability lies with the company, not with you as a person. This means you would need to set up the company, employ yourself as its director and pay yourself accordingly. You'll almost undoubtedly need an accountant, and will need to submit accounts to Companies House each year, on top of your tax return.

Seriously, go to the HMRC pages, and look up their factors for self-employment and see what you think. Of course, it also depends how much you want the job, and what commission you think you could make.

KiKi

Savvy_Sue

Hello123 wrote: »

This is for a solicitors office btw which makes me think it must be legal?

I hesitate to suggest that they're banking on that! Solicitors are no strangers to the employer's side of employment tribunals claims!

purple.sarah

I would run, not walk away. Don't be seduced by them saying there is no limit to the pay, businesses that pay commission only like to say that there is no set amount and therefore no maximum, they're less likely to stress that there is no set minimum wage and therefore you're not guaranteed to get anything! If you have bills to pay you won't be able to bank on this.

Hello123_2

Thanks for advice everyone.

I know it sounds pathetic but I havnt slept thinking about this - I've been so desperate for a job & now this happens!

HMRC have advised that employers do not have to use the PAYE scheme & could not say much else.
ACAS said if i'm self employed then there's no national minimum wage.

Should I stay & hope I earn enough money via commission? Or is it a con?

Also should I contact anyone for help or even report him???