tax office say we owe them money 4 years on

chrismac1

You have a few stages to go to before that, and it need not cost you any money. First things first - work out what the correct tax should have been and point out the error of their ways. Also bear in mind that under Esc A19 they are out of time for issuing 07-08 assessments, so that's at least 2 ways you can get rid of this bill.

BoGoF

Chrismac1 - do you charge people in your day job for the wrong advice you consistently give on this forum. They are not out of time, if they are please quote the legislation.

You cannot take HMRC to a tribunal over an ESC A19 refusal, it is not an appealable decision. The 'C of ESC stands for concession, it is not covered by law and with all ESC's there are no rights of appeal. There are other avenues such as adjudicator, parliamentary ombudsman and Judicial Review should you have the money but a Tribunal has no jurisdiction on this matter.

sunrise27_2

what was the time limit to issue 07/08 assessments ???

BoGoF

sunrise27 wrote: »

what was the time limit to issue 07/08 assessments ???

5 April 2012.....

dori2o

BoGoF wrote: »

Chrismac1 - do you charge people in your day job for the wrong advice you consistently give on this forum. They are not out of time, if they are please quote the legislation.

You cannot take HMRC to a tribunal over an ESC A19 refusal, it is not an appealable decision. The 'C of ESC stands for concession, it is not covered by law and with all ESC's there are no rights of appeal. There are other avenues such as adjudicator, parliamentary ombudsman and Judicial Review should you have the money but a Tribunal has no jurisdiction on this matter.

Thank you.

I have been telling this clown, who claims to be an accountant, the same thing for the past 9 months.

The time limits within ESCA19 apply only to information that should have been acted upon at the time the information became available, i.e (12 months from the end of the tax year in which the information was received).

HMRC have exactly the same time limits as any ordinary person to complete an assessment to claim an underpayment or repay an overpayment of tax.

jimmo

There was a thread on here recently where a person who drove a company van was incorrectly charged a benefit because the employer had submitted an incorrect P11D to HMRC.
Whilst it took a bit of time for the original poster in that thread to get things put right it seems that he felt that HMRC were completely intransigent.
The upshot was that the OP had to persuade his employer to submit an amended P11D.
I think you should start there, always bearing in mind that if the employer overstated your husband's benefits on his P11D the employer has overpaid Class 1A National Insurance on the over-stated benefits.
If your husband can get his former employer to amend the P11D the rest should fall into place, in the sense that the correct amount of any underpayment will be established.
However, there is already a lot of red tape to deal with.
First and foremost, your husband must write to HMRC to object to (or appeal against) the claimed underpayment, preferably within 30 days of receiving the notification from HMRC.
Then, you need to concentrate on whether the former employer can be persuaded to amend the relevant form P11D. If so, job done on determining the amount of any underpayment.
If not, can you convince someone at HMRC that the former employer has got the P11D wrong.
From my days at HMRC I like to think you can, but I also recognise that things have changed since my days there.
Speaking as a former taxman, I claim that in my occasional appearances at tribunals (in my days it was the general commissioners) I never lost a case.
In my private life, I have represented my son twice, and won twice, in benefits tribunals but I am convinced that my professional experience and preparation tipped the balance in my son's favour.
To me, that is the key. A tribunal is the last resort and, to use a sporting adage, "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
To be frank, I think that, at this stage, you would really struggle to properly prepare for a tribunal and, whilst, in my experience, tribunals tend to favour the individual against the “system” it is simply not just a case of turning up and hoping for the best.

chrismac1

Well sorry folks, I am working on the basis - which is the norm in my experience - that it is more likely that HMRC has made a mistake and not the employer. Because not a week goes by in my life without having to deal with something stupid or another from HMRC. So let's just for one minute (I realise you all think HMRC are wonderful) go with that one. The employer submits an accurate P11d by July 2008, which is during the 2008-2009 tax year. So HMRC then must "use it or lose it" by 5 April 2010 or Esc A19 can indeed be claimed.

Of course we may well see HMRC point the finger at the employer who points the finger at HMRC who points the finger.....How many times have we seen threads like that in this forum? Where I have personally come across that situation, 100% of the time in my opinion HMRC were the ones who had messed up and not the employer. So go for Esc A19 and keep going with it!

As I said in an earlier thread, the fact that we're now looking at this 4 years later makes me even more suspicious that the fault here lies with HMRC and not the employer. I have had two of these "We've looked at our records from 3 or 4 years ago and decided you owe us £1,500 / £4,500 in tax" cases. In BOTH some idiot within HMRC had double counted some income, naturally enough if you double someone's income in most cases it looks like they owe you a shedload of tax!

sunrise27_2

chrismac1 wrote: »

yes, it should reduce the benefit by 26% or so. Labour made this tax about as complex as it is possible to think of making a car benefit tax, so you need g/km to get the benefit amount right as well as list price. But the amount is pro-rata to the list price.

the g/km for the Jaguar was 149 if that makes any sense or helps ??

chrismac1

You take your tax life in your hands taking car benefit calcs from a proven clown, but here goes:

If this was a "plain vanilla" petrol car with list price £22k including all extras, no employee contributions made, then the car benefit charge if available for the full tax year I reckon to be 3,520. Reduce this for any period when your hubby did not have the car available for his use.

sunrise27_2

thank you x it was a diesel if that makes any difference and was an S ( which I have no idea what that means lol ) he didn't pay anything towards it as far as I know