'Fraud is being attempted, yet the police won't act' blog discussion

mostlycheerful · 20 September 2011 at 1:49AM

Paxo123 wrote: »

magpiecottage, I totally agree for the offence to be made out, you only need to have the intent and make a false rep in order to make a gain...."I am endorsed by MSE so this must be a good offer" would be enough.

But for crime recording purposes the Home Office Counting Rules gives clear examples for when to record a crime:

Although not specific to this example, this is a telephone call based fraud example

Likewise with scam e-mails

Also it down the specific intended victim to make the complaint not MSE.

if there is no crime recorded, then there is no crime to investigate...next motorist for speeding please.

Which is inconsistent seeing as the intent and intention to commit crime is crime in itself, as in these examples :

1 going equipped to cheat
2 going equipped to steal
3 going equipped to burgle

4 incitement of racial hatred - expressing various words and phrases in various ways constitutes this crime even if no actual action or event has taken place.

5 incitement to riot - several criminals recently got 4 years prison for this

6 possession with intent to supply drugs

7 making threats to kill even if no killing, violence or any other action has taken place. Just the expressed intent is a crime.

So whereas all these intents are illegal, and probably lots more, there are also all sorts of other intents that are not.

Which is just more evidence of what an utter mess the failed, negligent, incompetent, unfit for purpose UK justice system is. And how it is just an inconsistent hodge podge that's often illogical and absurd. And is wholly unfit for purpose and consistently fails millions of citizens all the time.

If all those intents are illegal then the intent to rip someone off via fraud should be as well. Why is it currently deemed ok to try to steal from someone via fraud? It's not ok, is it, it's vile and horrible and evil. It's a menace. Millions of people, especially vulnerable and weak people, are being ripped off all the time. Some of them have their whole lives destroyed. Lots of old people die from the shock and sadness and shame. All the time everywhere. But still the government, police and justice system all fail to act. It's a foul heavy evil crime and it should be designated as such. The fraudsters should all be stopped and locked up. But the government is deliberately letting them rob people, everywhere, all the time.

As I explain in my post above, it's government policy not to prosecute most crime and to allow most of it to prevail and succeed and flourish.

It's David Cameron's policy, and before him Brown, Blair, Major etc for millions of citizens to have crime perpetrated against them and to not bother to ever prosecute or incarcerate any of the criminals, other than the occasional token few. This is massive failure of government in UK. There is virtually no rule of law, there is hardly any law enforcement.

In fact legally, by deliberately knowingly failing to do anything about crime in UK, the government, police and justice system all collude with criminals and all facilitate criminals perpetrating their crimes. However it is a crime to knowingly deliberately collude with criminals and it is a crime to knowingly deliberately facilitate criminals.

So therefore the government, police and justice system are all criminals.
Except that we have to let off the police in this instance as in fact they have no choice in the matter and simply do what they're told and mostly do the best that they can and mostly, especially as compared with a lot countries, do a good job of it, as far as they can.

But the government and the judges and the parole officers. Well, they're all responsible for this debacle. They're all responsible for the tidal wave of crime engulfing us all. We pay them wages to stop the crime and they fail to do so. They knowingly deliberately fail to do their jobs. The crime is all their fault. They're supposed to have stopped it by now, in fact they're supposed to have stopped it long ago. But they chose not to. They could have stopped it, they're supposed to have stopped it - but they decided not to. Shame on them.

And here in today's paper is yet another of the many literally millions of examples of the almost completely failed UK justice system.

Rarely, for once an MP actually says something sensible about it and that people in the justice system who fail to do their jobs should be held accountable for their failure but, of course, he fails to do anything about it, except mouth a few useless words, a bit of empty rhetoric :

“A convicted hammer killer carried out 11 armed raids on bookmakers while he was on day release from prison.

Williams was caught entirely by chance when he shunted an unmarked police car and a sharp-eyed officer recognised his face from a wanted poster.

Back bench Tory MP Douglas Carswell said: ‘This shows that there is something badly wrong with our criminal justice system. If people are going to have confidence in that system we need to hold to account the probation service, the courts and prosecutors.’

…The Prison Service said: ‘Cases like these are extremely rare. The overwhelming majority of releases pass without any problems and help to resettle prisoners back into the community.’”

But, of course, as everyone knows, that’s not true. It’s a well publicised fact that the UK suffers from “revolving door” justice in which 80% of criminals are reconvicted within two years of release from prison. And therefore should never have been released, simply to commit more crimes, in the first place.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039169/Joseph-Williams-Convicted-hammer-killer-carried-ELEVEN-armed-raids-day-release-prison.html#ixzz1YSCr6E00

And, you just couldn’t make it up, it defies belief, also in today’s paper, another typical example of a wholly grossly incompetent judge failing to jail a compulsive criminal doing lots of crime all the time, and therefore knowingly allowing the criminal to continue doing lots more crime :

“When a serial shoplifter appeared in court accused of stealing 25 bottles of shower gel, it should have been enough to keep his nose clean for a while.

But instead of keeping a low profile, bungling thief Jay Jones immediately went out and indulged in another stealing spree, just hours after protesting his innocence to magistrates.

However, despite having a string of 60 previous convictions, he was spared jail after a judge said there was 'little point' in sending the 30-year-old to prison."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039056/Serial-shoplifter-heads-stealing-spree-hours-appears-court-accused-theft.html#ixzz1YSK92400

Garry_Anderson · 20 September 2011 at 8:10AM

I recently contacted OFCOM about our ISP cutting usage without telling customers and trying to demand they either pay for 'excess' use (we were on 'unlimited') or pay for a monthly sevice with greater usage (more than 'unlimited').

They refused to tell me why it is not fraud and have not investigated how many customers the ISP conned. IMO those in charge of OFCOM are corrupt and perverting the course of justice.

cit_k · 11 October 2011 at 10:56PM

Can you not ask the police why this does not apply?

Fraud by false representation (Section 2)

The defendant:
made a false representation

dishonestly

knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading

with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

The offence is entirely focused on the conduct of the defendant.

The Offences

Section 1 creates a general offence of fraud and introduces three ways of committing it set out in Sections 2, 3 and 4.
Fraud by false representation (Section 2);

Fraud by failure to disclose information when there is a legal duty to do so (Section 3); and

Fraud by abuse of position (Section 4).

In each case:
the defendant's conduct must be dishonest;

his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another.

No gain or loss needs actually to have been made. <<<<<<<<

The maximum sentence is 10 years' imprisonment.

Obviously, the police know the full details of the case, so will be in a better position to comment if it does or does not apply.

source

dimdog · 26 January 2012 at 1:02AM

As per the home office counting rules mentioned in this thread I would say it's a case of finding someone who has been approached more than once by the fraudsters, then they're considered a specific intended victim and can report to the police.

Those mentioning civil cases seem to be presuming that you know who to serve legal papers against. I'd guess if this were the case you'd probably already have managed to get the police to act.

Good luck with this, horrible to see the sites good name being used for something like this. Though I guess it shows MSE is now up there with Microsoft, Google, Uefa, Coca Cola and all the other big names that get used in similar scams.

meggsy · 26 January 2012 at 2:40PM

I saw part of a programme yesterday for the deaf, how groups on facebook are being targeted and parted from their money :mad:

There is a 4 minute clip here ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00njt5h

PreeliGep · 5 February 2012 at 7:01PM

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