Cost of tooth extraction?

Toothsmith

SnowyOwl wrote:

Debt is the stark reality for many, many students, including those who go into careers much less lucrative than dentistry. I know two new graduates both with starting salaries of £14k and both in debt to the tune of around £6k each, it will take them years and years to pay it all back as their salaries in their careers will rise v.v.gradually. If they are on £20k three years after graduation then they will be v.lucky.

This is true, but they have a free choice about what job they do. English grads are not forced to work in libraries, law grads do not have to pay back their debt to society by only doing legal aid work for x years etc etc. Many mothers positively glow with pride when recounting how their little Nigel got a job with Countitt & Stash PLC on £xxxxxxx pa after getting a 2.1 in Meeja Studies. For dentists, this seems to be a sin though. Plus, the more you earn, the more tax you pay, so the quicker you pay back society. Society is not 'payed back' with substandard dentistry.

SnowyOwl wrote:

The dentistry courses may be longer than 3 years and so debts will probably be higher, but in such a lucrative career they will be able to pay it back quicker and easier.

The average dental student these days qualifies with a debt of £30,000. Not only is the course longer in terms of years, dental students only get about 8 weeks hoildays in total after their first year (Most students only do a 26-27 week YEAR for all 3 years). This increases living expenses whilst cutting down the available time for holiday jobs.

Plus, when I was a student in the mid 80's (Ahhh Those fashions! :rolleyes: ) the average cost of my text books was about £40-£50 EACH. I bought a dental materials book for £125. Medical books are not mass market things, and their cost is phenomenal. True, there are libraries and also second hand book sales organised by the student societies. Libraries only have so many copies though, and these books are updated regularly, so you can't buy a too older second hand one.

SnowyOwl wrote:

Do the fees that students pay actually cover all the costs of their course anyway? I don't think so...taxpayer money still funds education.

Again true. But us taxpayers also fund the computer systems that go over budget by BILLIONS and still don't work, the MPs who claim £88,000 in travel expenses every year, the bombs that created those lovely little armless Iraqi children so lovingly described as 'collateral damage' etc etc etc

There doesn't seem to be much money left in the pot when it comes to these minority side issues such as decent funding for education and healthcare. :mad:

We are on the same side Snowy. Don't let the media cloud the real issues.

Toothsmith

Sofa_Sogood wrote:

Just out of interest, and whilst this topic's still 'live', do dentist's do domiciliary visits and treatment?

Domicilliaries. I’m really going to go off on one now, so scroll down if you like!!

I used to do a ‘dommy run’ about once a week, back in the days when there were lots of residential homes (Have you noticed how they’ve all disappeared now as well?). Then the Regulators set in. :mad:

In our surgery we have to have an emergency drugs kit, filled with various bits and pieces to aid people in the event of serious medical emergencies. These kits are not cheap, and some of the drugs they contain have quite short shelf lives. So they have to be updated quite frequently. The out of date drugs also cost money to get rid of. In 17 years of practice, all I’ve ever needed are the cheapo glucose tablets for the odd person having a dizzy do.

We also need to have an oxygen supply readily available. These bottles are also not cheap to buy/rent, and they need regular maintenance. I have needed to use oxygen once, for someone having a laryngeal spasm.

Now, according to the Regulators, when we go out on the road, we are still practicing dentistry, so all this paraphernalia needs to come with us. That’s a real problem if there is still a dentist or hygienist still working back at the practice, as they will not have them. For the times that we are now called to do dommy visits, it really is not worth buying and maintaining two sets of emergency equipment.

Plus…. Taking an oxygen cylinder anywhere in your car is transporting a hazardous compressed gas. That needs a license!!!! That costs, and warning signs must be clearly visible on your vehicle.

Plus… Any rubbish generated on the visit is either clinical waste or trade waste. This cannot be disposed of in the bin of the place you are visiting, nor can you bring it back to the surgery without a ‘control note’ and a licence to transport clinical waste and another to transport trade waste. (This does not matter if you go to a residential home, as they will have their own disposal arrangements.)

So, that is why dentists don’t do dommys so much now. The only times we do, we’re generally breaking some law or guideline somewhere. I can just see the press report.

Woman Dies due to Dentist Negligence

A family is today in mourning after the loss of their beloved grandmother. Mrs. Emily Oldfolk (87) died during a home visit of Dr. James Toothsmith after her family had contacted him with a request to have a look at her lower denture which was ‘rubbing a bit’. During that visit, Mrs Oldfolk suffered a cardiac arrest and died.

In court, Dr. Toothsmith admitted not carrying the correct resuscitation equipment, stating that he though he was only going to be ‘smoothing a bit off’ the lower plate.

Solicitor for the family Graham Chasers, of D’Ambulance Chasers Willgettcha stated ‘The family is devastated. Dr. Toothsmith was clearly not following clear guidelines laid down for the safety of patients and as such he has been shown to have been negligent. The family will be pushing for a six figure settlement. They would like to make it clear that the money is not important, but the message that this sends to the rest of the profession. Risking patient safety by riding roughshod over the rules will not be tolerated. We hope Dr. Toothsmith will never again be able to practice as a dentist.’

Dr Toothsmith was also fined £10,000 and ordered to pay costs for the other charge of throwing a tissue that he’d used to wipe the patients mouth into her normal domestic refuse.



Sorry to go on!!!!

Savvy_Sue

:rotfl:I know it's not really funny, but you have a way with words, Toothsmith. No wonder school dental inspections also seem to have disappeared - and they only looked inside the mouths with a mirror!

I'm sure there must be some, but I've never been registered with a dentist who had level access to the practice! Current one has steep outside steps up to the main door, then awkward corners inside, plus one of the dentists is upstairs. Made it very difficult for her when she needed crutches / wheelchair during pregnancy!

Toothsmith

Now you're only trying to wind me up about disability discrimination legislation aren't you!!!!!

Savvy_Sue

Toothsmith wrote:

Now you're only trying to wind me up about disability discrimination legislation aren't you!!!!!

No, I promise I wasn't trying to wind you up, just commenting!

Sofa_Sogood

Toothsmith wrote:

Domicilliaries. I’m really going to go off on one now, so scroll down if you like!!

<snipped>


Sorry to go on!!!!

I only wanted a consultation because I couldn't get to my dentist (whoever he/she is now) but you have a good old rant about domicilliaries - I hope you feel better by the way

It was only a question by the way, not an accusation about would be "ambulance chasers" if anything went wrong. As a mum of an "ambulance chaser" I think I know who to avoid lol.

As a friend of someone who actually makes plates, dentures, and 'Maryland bridges', I might ask them to help.

Or the local stonemason

Seriously. Sorry I asked about such a touchy subject, I didn't realise what was involved. I only asked because I remember one of my (now not with me)parents having home treatment and thinking how good it was.

But that was a while ago.

Meanwhile, please stay and answer all these questions

For what it's worth, and just as an afterthought, I've had 3 Maryland bridges fitted. I 'lost' one once and was told to wait a while as it wasn't an emergency. It wasn't, but I was about to meet and greet a lot of people and didn't want to give them a gappy grin. The dentist said - and these are his words - not mine, that "if I'd been a singer I'd have been dealt with much sooner". Like immediately. Huh??

I nearly burst into song until I remembered (apart from the dentist having no recording studio etc), I was tone deaf and couldn't sing to save my life, ergo, I'd have been caught out lol.

Keep posting won't you? I love the friendly repartee, but more so, the advice and commitment you all show.

Thanks.

Toothsmith

There are only 2 'Real' dental emergencies. Uncontrolled bleeding and swelling likely to endanger the airway.

Everything else, even severe pain will not kill you. Whilst dentists run their own out of hours services though, we tend to be a lot more sympathetic and can come out to all sorts of things.

With the 'new dental contract' for the NHS, PCT's will take over organising NHS emergency cover, and with the funding problems they are going to have, I'd bet my mortgage that it will only be available for 'true ' emergencies.

Dentists are very cross about this, as the little funding we were given to provide the emergency service will go, and yet we will probably still be the first point of contact for a patient with an emergency. As we are seen as being 'responsible' for our patient's care we will also be blamed when they cant be seen with what they consider is an emergency!

So the choice for us will be pass the patient on to the PCT service, where we know they probably won't be seen, or do it ourselves for free.

Of course, patients of private dentists will still have the same arangements as before with their own dentist providing cover.

Most private dentists still see kids on the NHS though, so we have to decide how we're going to handle that one in the event of out-of-hours emergencies.

Toothsmith

Sofa_Sogood wrote:

For what it's worth, and just as an afterthought, I've had 3 Maryland bridges fitted. I 'lost' one once and was told to wait a while as it wasn't an emergency. It wasn't, but I was about to meet and greet a lot of people and didn't want to give them a gappy grin. The dentist said - and these are his words - not mine, that "if I'd been a singer I'd have been dealt with much sooner". Like immediately. Huh??


Thanks.

Sorry I forgot to answer this bit.

Depending on when the bridge was made, when it came off and what cement your dentist has to stick it back on with, Marylands often have to go back to the lab to be re-etched before you can stick them back on. This takes a day or two.

If you really had something ultra important to do, it could just be stuck back on, but that would not last very long, and so it would have to be taken off, to be re-etched, to be stuck back on. (Bit like waking someone up to give them a sleeping pill) Now you'd be surprised how many times Sod's Law kicks in in dentistry, and It's very likely, when the dentist wanted to get it off, it wouldn't budge, or worse still, break. So he'd decide to leave it.

Then, just when your next improtant event came up, it would just drop off again

That was probably why your dentist decided to leave it - not just cos you have a voice like a bullfrog :rotfl:

Of course, when he got to see it, he could well have realised it would just stick straight back on, but he'd not know that over the phone, and it would be a waste of both your times if he couldn't do it there and then at a weekend.

PS Whenever I go off on one, it's nothing personal against the person who's asked the question. It's just there is sooo much about our job and the rules we have to follow that the public just have no idea on.

If there is something in my posts that makes you grin, then you can assume I'm smiling as I wrote it!!!

Sofa_Sogood

Hi Toothsmith and thanks again

My first Maryland lasted far longer (and was far cheaper) than the other two (?). I think it lasted about 5 or 6 years, maybe more - so money well spent in my opinion.

Then it loosened and fell out.

My then dentist wasn't available to me, so I went 'up market', or as up market as I could taking into account of where I lived, and had one fitted by a dentist that warned me it could fall out again. He did say why - something about the weakness in the teeth on either side of it being the problem (I think).

That Maryland lasted about 48 hours maximum, and there wasn't any recourse, no money back guarantees, as I said.

But for it to fall out after less less than 48 hours and it costing a small fortune, (about 3 or 4 times the original cost), really disheartened me so much, I found another and cheaper dentist. The one who thought he was Simon Cowell

He did his best, but he was terrible. I can only say that he was bad after he gave me an anaesthetic, for another tooth that I was in pain with, and let in another patient, and the anaesthetic wore off. As it was a little girl in pain with toothache, I didn't mind, until I sat in the chair for an extraction. *Those of you with a nervous disposition, stop reading now*

It was excrutiating. Hmmm. But I let him fit my very last Maryland not long after (my dates are all to pot - sorry) and that fell out in a packed Mcd's or similar In Leicester Square! But for some reason, I'd bought some Denture Fix stuff and literally used that to 'temporarily' glue it into place. Short term it worked. Long term and it looked bad, but I couldn't eat with my front teeth by that time anyway, because it was just a short term fix. BUT ... it was good.

I've just realised that another dentist must have been involved (because I had the full sparkling gleam lol) for my daughter's wedding - so my last dentist must have removed the Maryland (and the effects on the two side teeth completely) and fitted the one that I have now, that's on a 'wire'. That didn't move at all by the way. It just irritated me when I ate. In fact, I took it out to eat, and as it was so small and unnoticable, I eventually left it out. Now it just about fits. Look -

Since then I've broken and pulled out myself (I told you sensitive lot to look away lol) another tooth and I daren't even attempt to put this thing that measures all of a centimetre or two, back in. But because I did what I did, my top palate (sp?) which only has one tooth that's really noticeable, was left out too - and that doesn't fit at all

So - do I do as my sister in law suggests and have the lot extracted and look at titanium & cosmetic work? Or persevere with a dentist I haven't got, (and I'm scared to visit), and continue with, what's all said and done, short term remedial work?

Phew, that took some writing

By the way, go off on one whenever you like. Just keep posting lol. They make me grin, even if it's a toothy grin lol.

Apologies for the length of the post, but dentists and dentistry have always let me down. And it's been very costly. Like being hospitalised costly for yet another tooth problem. So what's your advice? Apart from to see a dentist a.s.a.p.?

Thanks in advance Toothy

P.S. I'm tempted to have them all extracted, that's how 'delicate' they seem to be.

What's left of them anyway

Sofa_Sogood

It might be better to PM specific advice Toothsmith. I just remembered that health issues are a bit of a dodgy area in the forum.

Thanks in advance anyway.