MSE News: Citizens Advice funding cuts leave 10,000s without help

Catalyst1969

I agree. If people look at the CAB annual reports and accounts they will see the haed staff are paid between £60,000 to £90,000. That's not altruistic in nature, that is greed.

fatbelly

The press release on which this article is based, is here:

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/pressoffice/press_index/press_20110906.htm

There's no doubt that there will have to be substantial changes to the service. If you look at the main sources of funding:

Local government 42.7%
LSC 14.6%
FIF 9.5%

these are all under threat.

I don't think the decrease in debt cases is related to the cuts (not yet anyway). There is a small year-on-year decrease now (CCCS report similar figures) since banks have started to lend more responsibly and DROs have provided resolution to an increasing number.

immoral_angeluk

Catalyst1969 wrote: »

I agree. If people look at the CAB annual reports and accounts they will see the haed staff are paid between £60,000 to £90,000. That's not altruistic in nature, that is greed.

I see your point, but it's still a business at the end of the day, just a non profit making one. The very top of any business will be paid well above average because of the responsibility and work involved. I've never seen the head office annual reports with the head office salaries for example, I can only speak from ground level.

rogerblack

immoral_angeluk wrote: »

I see your point, but it's still a business at the end of the day, just a non profit making one.

The head office doesn't just sit there looking pretty, and navel-gazing.
They're also doing things to support the local CAB offices.
From closely analysing legal decisions and the law, and providing guidance to help CAB workers to understand the benefits system through training materials, to consulting with government and making representations to get the laws changed in areas of unfairness.

immoral_angeluk

rogerblack wrote: »

The head office doesn't just sit there looking pretty, and navel-gazing.
They're also doing things to support the local CAB offices.
From closely analysing legal decisions and the law, and providing guidance to help CAB workers to understand the benefits system through training materials, to consulting with government and making representations to get the laws changed in areas of unfairness.

Oh I realise this, my point was merely that CAB at the end of the day is a business like any other in terms of overheads, management, costs etc. However the nature of the business is obviously helping others through advice, social policy, training etc etc.
The specialist support unit in itself is a fabulous resource, as is the social policy work head office do.

Yes, head office will be paid more than most, but personally I feel this is justifiable for the skills and knowledge those people have.

SurreyBear

This issue illustrates how the last government created a dependency culture. Any business would question the sustainability of securing such a high level of income from only one source. CAB can streamline - provide surgeries in local libraries etc rather than renting properties they can't afford, make increased use of online support. The CAB are brilliant and really important but maybe a little incompetent at HO for not creating a more sustainable business model.

meher

immoral_angeluk wrote: »

I think it's unfair to belittle advisors who are often giving their own time for nothing in return.

I appreciate the point you're making, if they are offering time for nothing in return then why this hysteria over funding - why not just get on doing for nothing in return? I'm asking again, what is stopping them. So you see, there's a culture of expressing mock outrage for a whole host of reasons, mostly political reasons to present the tories as useless. You can see libraries closing down, what we're not told is the expenses the do gooder sat in the office was fetching a big fat obscene salary in par with the GPs at the expense of the tax payer who wanted to see a good library and not line the pocket of the coucil employee. Likewise what we hear about CAB is not the whole truth - there are parasites of all kinds abusing the system (and I don't mean those who seek help) that they themselves drained the resources and now have a sense of entitlement if they are expected to serve the community. Either it is a free service or it is not and even if they are volunteers, they should have a sense of commitment, meaning there should be some element of stability and reliability and not use this as a stop gap for the funding to come through. If I'm sat in the funding committee I'd bin applications from charities which paid anyone exhorbitant salaries, employed more staff who used this as a stop gap than those who served with commitmentover a period of time and those who didn't have any specific protocols about employment or numbers - I suspect the funders network is seeing through these kind of failed business models that is not feasible to run long term.

immoral_angeluk

meher wrote: »

I appreciate the point you're making, if they are offering time for nothing in return then why this hysteria over funding - why not just get on doing for nothing in return? I'm asking again, what is stopping them. So you see, there's a culture of expressing mock outrage for a whole host of reasons, mostly political reasons to present the tories as useless. You can see libraries closing down, what we're not told is the expenses the do gooder sat in the office was fetching a big fat obscene salary in par with the GPs at the expense of the tax payer who wanted to see a good library and not line the pocket of the coucil employee. Likewise what we hear about CAB is not the whole truth - there are parasites of all kinds abusing the system (and I don't mean those who seek help) that they themselves drained the resources and now have a sense of entitlement if they are expected to serve the community. Either it is a free service or it is not and even if they are volunteers, they should have a sense of commitment, meaning there should be some element of stability and reliability and not use this as a stop gap for the funding to come through. If I'm sat in the funding committee I'd bin applications from charities which paid anyone exhorbitant salaries, employed more staff who used this as a stop gap than those who served with commitmentover a period of time and those who didn't have any specific protocols about employment or numbers - I suspect the funders network is seeing through these kind of failed business models that is not feasible to run long term.

Totally agree, but even if everyone was volunteering, you would need funding to pay for the bare basics such as the costs of running the business, training, heating, taxes, phones etc. In an idea world it wouldn't cost anything to run a charity but sadly it's very expensive.
Re the business model and funding, sadly you're right. CAB has now gotten so big as a business that most funders are starting to look at smaller organisations, feeling that CAB is big enough to self sustain now, so in a way it's kind of kicked itself in the teeth.

meher

I cannot dispute on the points you raise angel, but this is when we use our imagination and creativity. You don't need a big board saying that it is CAB, you can dispurse yourselves and offer voluntary services at other organisations who would kindly offer them space. I know of instances that have worked wonderfully, even making oter organisations accountable for excellent and quality service even without them realising. What I'm saying is that anything you set your heart on can be done. May be the CAB volunteers should offer their free online services for MSE for instance serious and offer 8-5 q and a session on the debt board, just an example. This reminds me we have our meetings in the local church, they offer us the space to talk about pressing coucil issues in our area (make our roads safe by putting up signs for speed limits at 10mph making the council work decently for the big fat tax we pay etc). Are you telling me that they need a CAB banner and staff to wear a CAB badge to serve the community that their hearts bleed for. I find that kind of fake outrage distasteful and dishonest and not going to weep if the bunch of them are feeling sorry for themselves finding that their job has not been worthy enough for funds, sorry to say so.

JimmyTheWig

But presumably, meher, the money goes on the experts rather than the volunteers.
If the money is cut then the experts are cut and who is left to support the volunteers?