The Beginning of the End for the Euro?

Pimperne1

On Wednesday the German Court rules on the legality of the bailout for the indebted nations:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8740389/German-endgame-for-EMU-draws-ever-nearer.html

"You can feel the storm brewing in Germany. Within days of each other, President Christian Wulff accused the European Central Bank of going "far beyond" its mandate and subverting Article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty by shoring up insolvent states, and Bundesbank chief Jens Weidmann said bail-out policies had "completely gutted" the EU law.

Both believe the EU Project has taken a dangerous turn. Fiscal powers are slipping away to a supra-national body beyond sovereign control.

"This strikes at the very core of our democracies. Decisions have to be made in parliament in a liberal democracy. That is where legitimacy lies," said Mr Wulff.

Otmar Issing, the ECB’s founding guru, fears that the current course must ultimately provoke the "resistance of the people". Instead of evolving into an authentic union with a "European government controlled by a European Parliament" on democratic principles, it has become deformed halfway house.

In its rush to save EMU, he said, Europe has forgotten that legislative primacy over tax and spending is the crucible of our democracies. It was monarchical assault on the power of the purse that led to England’s Civil War, and America’s Revolution.

We will find out to what extent Germany’s constitutional court shares these fears when it rules this Wednesday on the legality of the EU rescue machinery, and delivers its verdict of life or death for monetary union".

macaque_2

David Attenborough was talking about the size of monkey brains on TV today. He was explaining that the size of a primate brain is directly related to the size of the social group it lives in (i.e. a bush baby is a solitary creature and has a small brain but a Colobus which lives in larger communities has a bigger brain etc). There are a few flaws in this aguement (e.g. BTL sardines) but basically it makes sense.

The EU is run by baboons with small brains and therefore has no chance of engineering a peaceful society. And if there were baboons with brains big enough for the job, I would trust them the least. Democracy combined with stable borders and nuclear weapons have proved the best formula for a peaceful life so let's stick with the devil we know. By all means keep the EU but limit it to a free trade zone. That inevitably means the Euro has to go.

Pimperne1

macaque wrote: »

David Attenborough was talking about the size of monkey brains on TV today. He was explaining that the size of a primate brain is directly related to the size of the social group it lives in (i.e. a bush baby is a solitary creature and has a small brain but a Colobus which lives in larger communities has a bigger brain etc). There are a few flaws in this aguement (e.g. BTL sardines) but basically it makes sense.

The EU is run by baboons with small brains and therefore has no chance of engineering a peaceful society. And if there were baboons with brains big enough for the job, I would trust them the least. Democracy combined with stable borders and nuclear weapons have proved the best formula for a peaceful life so let's stick with the devil we know. By all means keep the EU but limit it to a free trade zone. That inevitably means the Euro has to go.

Would it not be possible for them also to conduct this experiment on humans rather than just assume that the same applies? What does BTL sardines refer to?

purch

The Beginning of the End for the Euro?

Is this thread dated 1st January 1999 :eek:

worldtraveller

A German court has ruled that Merkel's controversial decision to contribute billions of euros to the first rescue package of Greece and other fiscally troubled countries last year was not illegal, but it did say that parliament should have more of a say in the matter, with approval needed from its budget committee, which could slow down any further bailouts.

Guardian.co.uk

JonnyBravo

Pimperne1 wrote: »

What does BTL sardines refer to?

Do you miss the humour in anything remotely bearish or coming from anyone remotely bearish on purpose, or are you worried that your acknowledgment of said humour might help the "next leg down"?

:think:

Pimperne1

JonnyBravo wrote: »

Do you miss the humour in anything remotely bearish or coming from anyone remotely bearish on purpose, or are you worried that your acknowledgment of said humour might help the "next leg down"?

:think:

Its not even remotely funny though.:o

Loughton_Monkey

macaque wrote: »

David Attenborough was talking about the size of monkey brains on TV today. He was explaining that the size of a primate brain is directly related to the size of the social group it lives in (i.e. a bush baby is a solitary creature and has a small brain but a Colobus which lives in larger communities has a bigger brain etc). There are a few flaws in this aguement (e.g. BTL sardines) but basically it makes sense...

....so how's life in the Faroes these days?

horace_2

IMO the Common Market now the E.U. was and remains a political, economic and social nonsense.

I wonder when our politicos will realise that ETA (European Free Trade Association) was all that we needed?

Morons,and failed domestic politicos have mapped our present destination fostered of course by the apathy displayed by domestic electorates.

F+ckwits or what?

Our only hope is that `The more it changes the more it stays the same` and the stupidity of the European GRAND DESIGN hits the buffers soon.


h:mad:

worldtraveller

horace wrote: »

IMO the Common Market now the E.U. was and remains a political, economic and social nonsense.

I wonder when our politicos will realise that ETA (European Free Trade Association) was all that we needed?

Morons,and failed domestic politicos have mapped our present destination fostered of course by the apathy displayed by domestic electorates.

F+ckwits or what?

Our only hope is that `The more it changes the more it stays the same` and the stupidity of the European GRAND DESIGN hits the buffers soon.


h:mad:

I wouldn't generally call them F+ckwits, or morons, although undoubtedly some are. What they are though are a growing uber-elite of corrupt, unelected and, basically, unaccountable, politico-technocratic autocrats who have, largely through stealth and complex legalese, as well of course as the apathy that you mention, managed to, and continue to, map out our destination (a one way street!). Arrogance precedes most of them, not seeing themselves as public servants at all, but more as 'deity', anointed to milk the system for as much as they can get out of it for themselves, with no regard whatsoever for the mere 'serfs' below them.

michaels

More bad news for the piigs over the last few days with disunity at the heart of the ECB and mixed messages from the EU and member govts:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14878499
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14858155

It now appears that the European bank stress test did not even include an MTM of EUR sovereign debt let alone any scenarios relating to default.

I suspect the key political players have always thought they could avoid default and that market pressure was just a tool to be used to push reticent populations towards fiscal union but it looks like things may now have got out of hand and there is a realistic possibility of one (and given the signal that would send out) domino multiple defaults.

What would the consequences of that be for the rest of the world and specifically the UK? Potentially we will be hit directly through our banks and indirectly through our trade and so are probably the most exposed.

For the 'man in the street' how would the upheaval compare to that resulting from credit crunch part 1? IN 2007/9 fiscal policy largely insulated the population from the impact on real incomes that is now feeding through gradually, presumably that would not be an option in 2011.