Upstairs flat won't admit there is a leak

jessica01924

There has been a small leak on my bathroom ceiling for a while, gradually getting worse. I informed the owner of the upstairs flat, who lives overseas and rents the flat.
She had a plumber come around, who told her there was no leak. Whilst here, he came to my flat, and told me that it wasnt a leak, but rising damp. Please bear in mind the ceiling is 3m high, and the leak started from the top coming downwards, and there are brown watermarks on the ceiling. I'm not very DIY minded, but i know its a leak. My dad has been a builder for 30 years and has said it is a leak, as have 2 plumbers who have come to quote for a new bathroom for me.
I went back politely to the owner upstairs, who said she has done her diligence and there is no leak. she said there had been a leak there two years ago and this was residual water - after two years!!! this to me seems to be rubbish, and i dont want to spend on a new bathroom when this matter is outstanding.
but what can i do if she has insisted there is no leak?!

Mind_the_Gap

First, inform your freeholder in writing of the problem. If they have any sense, they will intervene if they are told there is a risk of long-term water damage, as unless remedied quickly it could be disastrous and the insurance companies may not cover the cost of remedy if it wasn't dealt with in a timely way.

If they do nothing, take some photos of the stain then buy a tin of damp seal/damp-proof paint.. Cover the area affected with three coats, at 24 hour intervals.

Then paint it the same colour as the rest of the ceiling and forget about it.

If it is a leak which has not been fixed, eventually the damp area will extend beyond the area you've painted. At that point you bring the occupant of the flat upstairs down to see it. If it is an old leak the damp proof paint will hide it and it won't spread.

jamie11

Mind_the_Gap wrote: »

If they do nothing, take some photos of the stain then buy a tin of damp seal/damp-proof paint.. Cover the area affected with three coats, at 24 hour intervals.

Then paint it the same colour as the rest of the ceiling and forget about it.

If it is a leak which has not been fixed, eventually the damp area will extend beyond the area you've painted. At that point you bring the occupant of the flat upstairs down to see it. If it is an old leak the damp proof paint will hide it and it won't spread.

Not sure about that MTG. It seems an invitation for a collapsed ceiling.

If it was rising damp it must have ladders to get that high.

OP definitely get on to the freeholder asap.

G_M

Rising damp, if it exists at all(!), does not start at ceiling height.

There only two possibilities:
1) it is external penetrating damp. This could be caused by
a) a gutter or down pipe leaking, rain water runs down the wall and eventually penetrates through. Easy to check when it rains: do the gutters/drains work or overflow?
b) defective pointing. This is the cement between the bricks (or stonework) which after time can wear away. Rain water then penetrates between the bricks. But the pointing has to be pretty bad before that happens.
2) It is an internal leak from upstairs. What is above the damp patch? Kitchen? Bathroom? It could simply be caused by clumsy showering/bathing resulting in the bathroom floor getting soaked, but you need quite a lot of regular splashing for this. It could be the plug/drain (perhaps hidden?) under the bath? Or a washing machine leaking when it empties?

You need to know what is above!

Get a quote for redecoration from 2-3 decorators and send it to the owner of the flat upstairs asking him to choose one and pay it. Tell him if he does not you will sue.

Or claim on your buildings insurance. They too will either claim off the upstairs owner or at least ensure remedial work is done.

McKneff

Rising Damp..........

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Mind_the_Gap

jamie11 wrote: »

Not sure about that MTG. It seems an invitation for a collapsed ceiling.

Possibly, although we'd need to know the state of the plaster where the stains are, to have any idea, I suppose. It takes quite a lot to bring a ceiling down - usually a flood.

OP, are the brown patches next to an external wall, or in the middle of the ceiling? What is immediately above them? (If the flats are newish the bathroom probably has the same layout as yours).

jessica01924

the brown patch is in the corner of the ceiling, against the external wall, and also next to an emergency exit stairwell (now no longer required and blocked off in their flat). i believe their bathroom is above it.

the leak was over a year ago previously - could residual water really last that long?

i have already written to the freeholder.

i'm not concerned about just painting over the leak if the leak has stopped, however i truly believe there is a leak - if i get a plumber to take down the ceiling, to pinpoint the leak, can i then tell them they must take action or i will take legal action?

G_M

Trying to find a leak via the ceiling is the wrong way to go. It should be done from upstairs where you can see what pipes/drains there are. If the problem is the bath waste, the leak will not be between your ceiling and their floor, it will be above their floor beneath the bath.
I'm afraid access upstairs is needed.

evoke

I had exactly the same problem when I lived in the flat. The b*tch upstairs refused to answer the door and wouldn't admit to a leak from her flat. I contacted the police who threatened to smash her door down. She got British Gas out to check things and the engineer came to check my flat. He informed me that she had had a radiator leak fixed recently!

As others have said, a leak needs to be traced from the flat above you (and above that if necessary).

The landlord needs to be informed as he/she has an interest in the property.

I also got a written statement from my emergency plumber stating that the leak was most probably from the flat above. This approach may also help you.

jessica01924

Thanks, that's good advice about the written statement from a plumber, I don't see what else I can do other than that.

I will give it a go!

The thing is it isn't leaking lots, eg gushing, but it's slow and steady and am worried about the untold damage it could be causing.

She has been really unhelpful on lots of other issues too.

I just don't want to have a horrible relationship with her as I want to live happily in my flat!

I_luv_cats

I have had leaks over the years and the causes were either:

(1) Plug hook hole exposed (water swishing through) or worn bath seal (water swishing about, some comes down)

(2) Bath Ubend loose (water comes down)

(3) Bath overflowing - the person fell asleep/forgot about etc.

(4) Toilet overflow (the overflow pipe outside was too short and therefore the water would come into my property)


I have had so much trouble with this. The excuses / the can't be bothered / failed accesses. In the end an inspection hole was made by knocking down part of the wall to ascertain the cause.

They may not be aware of a leak if say it's under their bath.