Timpson: Don't let them near your watch!

Joe_Horner

I'm a watchmaker and a big part of my business is overhauling Rolexes, Omegas and vintage pocket watches. That means fully dismantling, cleaning, repairing and assembling things like this, with a £2 - £3k replacement bill if I make a mistake:



I also change batteries.

My standard price for batteries (good quality, fresh, Renata) is currently £2.95, which includes replacing the back seal if needed, or £9.95 including a pressure test to guarantee proofing. You'll have to wait about 1/2 an hour for the pressure test.

The point of that is that I really know what I'm doing, I use good stock, that won't leak and cause damage like cheap batteries can, and I make a comfortable profit at those prices.

To give an idea of the profit, if I buy the two most popular battery sizes in bulk, that £20 "lifetime battery" that places like Timpsons offer as "great value" will buy me about 10 boxes of 10 cells each. That means that the 2 or 3 you'll actually get out of them before they tell you "it's not the battery" will still leave them with around 97 batteries in hand. Which they'll sell at £15 each.

The other side of it, of course, is that no matter how proficient I am at repairing watches, if you ask me to cobble your shoes then it's pot luck whether or not your feet will stay dry. And doing a 3 day "shoe repair course" (the equivalent of their watch repair ones) wouldn't improve those odds very much!

System

Timpsons charged me £20 for a life time battery which included a pressure test. If you charge £9.95 for a battery and pressure test then on the second replacement you do you are the same price as timpsons lifetime battery service.

Joe_Horner

True, but you won't get an "it's not the battery, we'll have to send it for estimate" from me. If there is a fault you'll get an immediate and free diagnosis (or often a free repair if it's something simple) rather than having your watch held to ransom for weeks

I'll also be happy to explain exactly the pros & cons of pressure test / no pressure test even if it loses me a test rather than scaring you into believing it'll be a colander if it's not tested.

Oh, and I can do a great line in lifetime guarantee heels while you're here

System

Joe_Horner wrote: »

True, but you won't get an "it's not the battery, we'll have to send it for estimate" from me. If there is a fault you'll get an immediate and free diagnosis (or often a free repair if it's something simple) rather than having your watch held to ransom for weeks

I'll also be happy to explain exactly the pros & cons of pressure test / no pressure test even if it loses me a test rather than scaring you into believing it'll be a colander if it's not tested.

Oh, and I can do a great line in lifetime guarantee heels while you're here

I agree you probably provide a better service as a good local trader usually offer a better level of quality than a chain. I just thought your original statement over you being cheaper was a bit ingenious.

Joe_Horner

goater78 wrote: »

I agree you probably provide a better service as a good local trader usually offer a better level of quality than a chain. I just thought your original statement over you being cheaper was a bit ingenious.

In the long run I usually am cheaper for a few reasons:

On the second of your "lifetime" changes there's a better than even chance that it'll fail the pressure test, probably on the crown seal (by far the most common seal failure), at which point they'll be pushing for a full service because "it may have had water in there, Sir". I'll simply check for water damage and, assuming there isn't any, replace the faulty seals inclusive in the cost.

If you're unlucky, they'll find that it's "not the battery" the first time you return, at which point the "lifetime" for your battery is over and you'll have paid twice as much for a single replacement.

If you're really lucky, you might get 3 changes out of them before one of the above happens. In that case they will have cost you about £3 less each. But that's the exception rather than the rule.

I also get a LOT of work from botched battery changes by the local Timpsons (and others), where they've made a mistake and tried to send it for estimate rather than putting it right. Broken coils and distorted backs are the favourite. Half the time I'm convinced they don't even realise that they've caused the damage themselves!

Obviously, that sort of thing will vary from branch to branch but it doesn't speak well for the standard of their training (and, hence, knowledge) if it happens in any of them.

bleepandbooster

Cheers Joe the wife is very happy with her new watch glass, fantastic service at the right price !


Cofion
David

patman99

I would suggest that Timpsons don't have a standard pricing policy as last year I paid £6 for a battery replacement + pressure test + lifetime g/tee.

My friend got fed up with paying out £5 a time to get new batteries in his watches, so he went of ebay and purchased a set of back-removers for £15.
He has already made back the cost of the kit in charging £2 a time to change batteries for friends and family.

HazMat_3

Naf wrote: »

The watch is rated to 30m; the manufacturer defines it as 'skin diving'; explained as anything without needing a wetsuit and scuba gear. I do nothing like this, hardly even swim, so bathing the kids and doing the dishes seems reasonable, yes?.

Although not a watchmaker myself, i would like to think I know a great deal about certain parts of a watch, one of these being water resistance.

30m water resistant is a decent enough everyday watch resistance, However: The water resistance of a watch is designed for cold water diving/use. When using a watch (regardless of price or water resistance) in an environment that involves steam, the seal cannot provide adequate protection.

Basically the seal is a small piece of rubber, this can expand with the heat of steam which is automatically over 100 degrees as anything lower than that makes it water. Steam expands this rubber, it then becomes loose, more steam can get in, condesnses, becomes water, steams up the inside of your watch.

So the cause of the problem is actually not Timpsons fault, assuming this is how you have used it: ie in the bathroom/doing the dishes.

Although I do agree that the service you have received is woeful

But if they are willing to fix it then fair play!!

Joe_Horner

bleepandbooster wrote: »

Cheers Joe the wife is very happy with her new watch glass, fantastic service at the right price !


Cofion
David

Happy to help, David

HazMat wrote: »

Although not a watchmaker myself, i would like to think I know a great deal about certain parts of a watch, one of these being water resistance.
[...]

Pretty fair summary of the situation regarding steam, but there's another important element with watches that don't carry one of the "official" ISO ratings (50m, 100m, 200m). Those are the only ratings for which there's a standard test regime that a watch must pass to carry the marking, and which have standard meanings in terms of suitable use.

With anything else (30m is a favourite) it's entirely up to the manufacturer to decide how to test and what to claim it's suitable for. In fact, a well designed watch that's only been tested by dunking in a bucket will probably be ok for swimming, at least when new.

In an extreme case, a maker could test a watch by holding it 30 metres away from water and claim it's "water resistant to 30 metres" meaning "resistant to within 30 metres of water" as long as they also specified that you shouldn't get it wet.

That's a bit of a silly example, but the point is that any claim of resistance has to be based on a defined standard to have any real meaning and there is no defined standard outside the ISO rating system.

One of the reasons makers do this is because they have to pay for independant testing (including on-going batch tests) in order to use the "official" markings. It's far cheaper for them to test in-house to a non-standard level.

Rotary have started doing this recently with their "waterproof" rating, which they say is suitable for anything short of scuba. That's fine if it's a reputable company (like Rotary) because they're unlikely to throw their reputation away by getting it wrong. But you're relying entirely on the integrity of the manufacturer in those cases.

I've taken many 30 metre rated watches to over 100m in a pressure tester without problems and the makers of those have probably done the same before slapping "30m" on the dial to save paying. These watches will probably survive showering, baths, or even a cycle in the washing machine. Others will have done the bare minimum to justify their claimed depth and the average buyer has no way of knowing which applies to a given watch.

RobWard

I dont go to Timpsons for my own reasons, had bad experiences with shoe repairs, but mainly as i used to work with some of the people who now work at my local store.

Id normally get my watch repaired at my local jewellers, but many have gone down under due to the economy etc.
Haven't had the time really to look around so picked this watch repairer off google.
In anyone's experience though, what would you look out for in a courier repair? Or just plain up avoid?
Wondering if ive made the right call