Big Debt...could last a lifetime.

The_Hunter

Also - would I be correct in assuming that with children in the house it would be difficult for them to get a force sale ?

IainMacca_2

The_Hunter wrote: »

Thank you, your comment about drive made us smile.

I have a company looking into the PG at the moment and the validity of it, bit of a long shot but worth a look.

The bank PG's will be solid I expect and I could manage them over time, but the other I have no chance.

In terms of validity/solidity of the bank's PG's, don't take it for granted. I don’t know if this is relevant or even sensible to post - so please don’t take this as ‘advice’, but maybe worth a looking in to….

I was in a similar situation a few years ago with a business related personal guarantee with the HSBC. I left the company before it went into liquidation and early last year HSBC got in touch to enforce that guarantee (for around £8k).

I initially disputed the validity of that personal guarantee on the grounds that (a) the full implications of signing the guarantee were not properly explained to me (i.e. I could lose my house etc.) and (b) the guarantee could be called-in at any point during my lifetime, then my estate’s.

It turns out there is a clause in the bank’s witnessing guidelines accompanying the guarantee document that stated something along the lines (from memory); if the signatory asks for explanation or clarification with regard to the document to be signed; then the bank employee must not give it, rather they should advise the signatory to take the agreement away and seek independent legal advice before signing.

I do actually remember asking the account manager for an explanation of parts of the agreement before signing – they gave an explanation and I signed the dotted line.

Long story short, when I took advice and disputed the validity of the PG agreement on the basis that I believe the bank may have been negligent in their discharge of responsibilities (blah blah blah), they dropped it like a lead balloon and sold the ‘debt’ to a DCA (who I told to p#ss off), they sold it to another DCA (with the same response) and I’ve not heard from anyone for nearly a year.

Having since spoken to the bank (business account manager) and also a decent solicitor, they reckon that the bank might have been a little bit wary of having to defend their PG process in court just in case it throws up something that leaves them open…..

Anyway good luck

The_Hunter

Thank you, interesting - the bank guarantee had to be witnessed by a solicitor, this particular guarantee has nothing about understanding what I was signing for and was in fact witnessed by my bother who is blind... (he was the only person around at the time)

Sparklyfairy

The_Hunter wrote: »

Thanks RAS - having looked, and looked again, does that basically mean that if a process is followed correctly even with a charging order we could end up with the full equity in the house should we decide to sell.

I am guessing that as I have two kids, one that is 5 and another that is 8 the chances of a force sale are slim. (I hope).

Yes - this is correct. The key is to shop around to find a *knowledgeable* solicitor when you want to sell who knows the difference between a restriction & a charging order. You'd only have a restriction...but I'm not sure how much an official receiver would be involved should you go down the bankruptcy route - as in if they'd take over the sale of your home, etc. Charging orders aren't included in bankruptcies so please bear this in mind if you do decide to ultimately go bankrupt..hth, SF

IainMacca_2

So if I understand correctly the commercial rather than the bank guarantee is the immediate problem?

And is this the one your brother witnessed or the solicitor? (if solicitor was it yours or theirs)?

Can I ask what the amount is, and the basis (was it a money loan, or goods/services)?

What state was the company in when you signed the guarantee? (were you under duress to pay wages or angry creditors etc.)?

Sorry to ask dumb questions but I think I have discovered that possibly PGs can be harder to enforce than to defend.

The_Hunter

So if I understand correctly the commercial rather than the bank guarantee is the immediate problem?
Yes, it's the commercial one - I can handle the bank one.


And is this the one your brother witnessed or the solicitor? (if solicitor was it yours or theirs)?
Yes, it was witnessed by my brother (who is registered blind)

Can I ask what the amount is, and the basis (was it a money loan, or goods/services)?
There is no maximum liability on this one, the bank one has a max liability, the amount they are after is a lot (150k+) and it was for goods.

What state was the company in when you signed the guarantee? (were you under duress to pay wages or angry creditors etc.)?
The company was growing, we grew from 200k turnover in the first year to £2m by year 3, I was under duress to get stock to fulfill orders.

Sorry to ask dumb questions but I think I have discovered that possibly PGs can be harder to enforce than to defend
No problem, I have the court papers arrived today and I was thinking of going back to them and ask them for 30 days to reply instead of 14

The_Hunter

another thought...could one of our relatives give my wife the money to pay off the mortgage, and then can I transfer the house into her name - and then I go bankrupt

Sparklyfairy

Hi, not entirely sure about this but I do think that when you do go bankrupt all your prior (up to a year? Not sure how long..) financial dealings will be look into by the official receiver & may end up being included. Ask on the bankruptsy board below - they'll definitely be able to answer this one..X

Oregon

If you are made Bkt your wife would only have to
Pay out your half of the equity remember.

I_know_my_ABC_and_my_CMYK

Oregon wrote: »

If you are made Bkt your wife would only have to
Pay out your half of the equity remember.

Plus you wouldn't lose the house as your children are school age.

Your wife should also be able to buy your half off the official receiver too.

You need to ask on the bankruptcy board to check this still applies, and good luck.