The 50% Tax Rate

StevieJ

A._Badger wrote: »

Probably. I always try to be accurate. It's pretty much been a Keynsian/Labour rag since Blair - staunchly (openly) in favour of McDoom and only grudgingly abandoning the sinking ship, when the writing wasn't so much on the wall as burning a hole in it. Much like yourself, when you switched to the LibDems, I imagine.

I abandoned Labour because of their attacks on freedom (well before the middle of the noughties) and the the fact that they were being run by a classic Tory, Blair :eek: Nothing wrong with Keynsian theory when applied correctly.

morag1202

and clause 4?

A._Badger

StevieJ wrote: »

I abandoned Labour because of their attacks on freedom (well before the middle of the noughties) and the the fact that they were being run by a classic Tory, Blair :eek: Nothing wrong with Keynsian theory when applied correctly.

You were genuinely surprised when a collectivist/socialist government 'attacked freedom'?

That's quite impressive cognitive dissonance.

bendix

Wheezy wrote: »

Journalistic hyperbole, Stevie.
Just as this article from that communist rag, the FT:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f7f9bdfc-3204-11df-a8d1-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1WbJ2lCWJ

Probably not the demographic bendix socialises with.

As long as it isn't him living in a dog-crate sized box he couldn't care less. Same old bendix.

To be honest, no I don't care that much, and you guys only care to the point that it supports your arguments. Deep down, I suspect you don't lose much sleep over poverty, either here in Asia or closer to home in the UK.

At the end of the day there will always be poverty, even in the richest countries. Look behind the veneers of shiny Dubai and Saudi and you see the same thing. Life's a !!!!!, and then you die.

What those articles about cage-dwellers don't tell you is that it is largely a transient temporary arrangement. HK provides a basic social welfare - enough to keep people alive but not enough to fester on it for life, like in the UK. It is sufficient but not indulgent. Life on welfare is a struggle, and enough of a struggle to encourage people to seek income in other ways, either through getting jobs or becoming street-traders etc.

That is what a welfare should do - NOT be so generous as to pamper people into a lifestyle they have no incentive to climb out of. People think of the UK welfare system as humane - I think it's the opposite. I think it cruelly saps people of their life spirit, ambition and condemns them to a life of mediocrity.

You would never see that in Asia, and that is PRECISELY why it is Asia that is now driving the world economy.

StevieJ

A._Badger wrote: »

You were genuinely surprised when a collectivist/socialist government 'attacked freedom'?

That's quite impressive cognitive dissonance.

As I said it had a closet Tory leader or hadn't you noticed

FTBFun

A._Badger wrote: »

You were genuinely surprised when a collectivist/socialist government 'attacked freedom'?

That's quite impressive cognitive dissonance.

New Labour collectivist/socialist? Can't really see PFI and that being particulary commie.

Loughton_Monkey

bendix wrote: »

What those articles about cage-dwellers don't tell you is that it is largely a transient temporary arrangement. HK provides a basic social welfare - enough to keep people alive but not enough to fester on it for life, like in the UK. It is sufficient but not indulgent. Life on welfare is a struggle, and enough of a struggle to encourage people to seek income in other ways, either through getting jobs or becoming street-traders etc.

That is what a welfare should do - NOT be so generous as to pamper people into a lifestyle they have no incentive to climb out of. People think of the UK welfare system as humane - I think it's the opposite. I think it cruelly saps people of their life spirit, ambition and condemns them to a life of mediocrity.

You would never see that in Asia, and that is PRECISELY why it is Asia that is now driving the world economy.

My sentiments exactly, and similar to my own past rantings.

I have several anecdotal personal experiences of families; ones who dote on their children to degrees you can't imagine [e.g setting fire to the Cricket Clubhouse meets with a mere 'talk' trying to explain to a 13 year old why it was not a 'good idea' and how he has cost the club 'lots of money'.....].

Predictably, such parents ultimately suffer two things (a) a bit of poverty since huge amounts have been spent on spoiled children, and (b) the spoiled chidren turn out to be drop-outs, drug smugglers, or in jail....

The principle is the same for a nation. Such a 'Nanny State' which we are led to believe is 'civilised', or 'developed', and 'the right thing' is succeeding only in (a) bankrupting the nation, and (b) turning the population into the equivalent of a 'spoiled child' - rather selfish, thoughtless, and irresponsible.

You can say what you like about Asians, but in general, they are the most 'personally responsible' people there are. Generally they are hard workers, who believe passionately in education and betterment, and are now getting richer by the minute as a direct result.

I think, genuinely, they are laughing very loudly about UK [and to an extent USA/Europe] and will continually do so as they get richer.

The only 'salvation' much longer term may come when the proportion of companies in UK owned by Japan/China/Korea/India..... becomes even larger - to the point of a large majority, then maybe they will force some reality back to the labout market and - in turn - to social trends from which we can re-learn. This might take 40 years, but it will be a very sad 40 years until that happens.

pqrdef

Well it's a good job these Asians are all fit and healthy and sane. Or do the rest just become invisible?

StevieJ

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

You can say what you like about Asians, but in general, they are the most 'personally responsible' people there are. Generally they are hard workers, who believe passionately in education and betterment, and are now getting richer by the minute as a direct result.

That is good news so we don't actually have a problem with disaffected young Asians who can't get a job :beer: I was a bit worried that it could be a problem but you have put my mind at rest, what do you reckon Percy?

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

That is good news so we don't actually have a problem with disaffected young Asians who can't get a job :beer: I was a bit worried that it could be a problem but you have put my mind at rest, what do you reckon Percy?

The Asians you are talking about are UK Asians in race only - they have become westernised in their attitudes, precisely by the nanny-state mentality that both Loughton and I are deriding.

But you knew that already.

Come to Asia StevieJ and live here like both LM and I do/have done.

You will see a completely different way of thinking.

My wife is Thai. She was in the UK recently during the riots. I tried to explain to her why they were happening, but she kept coming back to one point, which can be summarised thus: "But your Government is so kind to them. If they don't have jobs, they can still get lots of money, can still eat, they look like they have good clothes and they have nice Phones. Why are they trying to destroy that society when they get so many good things.?"

My answer echoed LM's. Because we spoiled them.

Come to Asia, and you will see a pervasive ethos built around the desire for self-betterment, a society where people save for their security (because they can't rely on the state), and where as a result they work hard and want to improve themselves and their families.

Curiously, those were very UK traits until that national ethos was destroyed by an excessive over-reliance on welfare support.