Thinking the Unthinkable

Conrad

kabayiri wrote: »

However, it's very realistic to blame them for not giving the electorate an honest assessment of the challenge we face.

I don't think they go nearly far enough. There needs to be significant cultural change.

Why should we assume that a 2 car family will always be the norm? Why can't we pay additional money for routine GP visits and more for prescriptions?

It's like we know that a future Britain will be one with reduced living standards, but we don't discuss what form this reduction will take.

The politicians just string us along.

Whilst I am of the right wing austerity bent, I think your analysis is predecated on your own world view without due regard for the huge effort involved in taking the rest of the population along with drastic cuts.

You recall when Thatch steamrolled her polltax policy through, that was the start of her undoing.

Placing yourself in the shoes of Cameron, you have to appease those that disagree with your view, and it's no simple task, in fact it's impossible.

Thjis simplistc 'radio jock' notion that Cameron should just get on with austerity, is incredibly short sighted.

Conrad

As a rightwinger myself, I have to say all 3 military adventures ought to end tomorrow. Japan and many other nations keep thier noses out and DONT suffer Islamist terrorism, so please don't fall for the tired old line that we are improving our lot by being involved. We must have spent hundreds of billions all for what. Pull out now and really start to get the national purse back in balance. End trident whilst at it.

pqrdef

wotsthat wrote: »

The consumer is slowly but surely reducing debt even in today's economy - if we can get our governments to be a little more thrifty that would help as well.

But half the economy depends on consumer borrowing or government spending. If they aren't growing, that's half the economy unable to grow.

Tullett Prebon seem to think the answer lies in liberating SMEs, but I'm not convinced about that either. A lot of them are only trying to sell people things that consumers with static incomes are increasingly deciding they don't really need to buy.

Basically we need more exports. But first we need some ideas about how to achieve that.

Conrad

The_White_Horse wrote: »

blame the lefties and public sectors of the world. they produce nothing and cost BILLIONS AND BILLIONS each year.

I mainly agree with this, but also stop p1ssing away billions on far away wars - many nations do not involve themselves and DO NOT suffer terrorism. Trident is also a total waste - many nations have no nuclear capability yet are perfectly happy and content.

So it's righties too.

I have tons of rows with benefit defenders in the discussion part of the forum - you ought to come over, there's several threads on benefits this morning. I always ask the lefties the same question - do they really believe 3 times as many of us are now sick, compared with 1970. They never answer.

wotsthat

pqrdef wrote: »

But half the economy depends on consumer borrowing or government spending. If they aren't growing, that's half the economy unable to grow.

Tullett Prebon seem to think the answer lies in liberating SMEs, but I'm not convinced about that either. A lot of them are only trying to sell people things that consumers with static incomes are increasingly deciding they don't really need to buy.

Basically we need more exports. But first we need some ideas about how to achieve that.

We need the consumer and government to spend but, over the longer term, need this spending to come from earned rather than borrowed money. Hopefully reduced household debts are a step in the right direction i.e. the consumer is getting used to the idea of spending less whilst the economy adjusts to less consumer borrowing being available.

Exports are clearly needed but if, as a nation, we could start to avoid the importation of crap then at least there'd be less pressure on exports.

The_White_Horse

Conrad wrote: »

I mainly agree with this, but also stop p1ssing away billions on far away wars - many nations do not involve themselves and DO NOT suffer terrorism. Trident is also a total waste - many nations have no nuclear capability yet are perfectly happy and content.

So it's righties too.

I have tons of rows with benefit defenders in the discussion part of the forum - you ought to come over, there's several threads on benefits this morning. I always ask the lefties the same question - do they really believe 3 times as many of us are now sick, compared with 1970. They never answer.

i will - got a link?

purch

Sounds like something I have written!

You missed your vocation. :eek:

Radiantsoul

It reads a bit like the authors had a serious hangover whilst writing it.

wotsthat

I shouldn't be thanking unpleasant posts like that but Peakoil sounds rather like my thought bubble.

Have you ever been in WH Smith trying to buy a magazine to be met by a load of people in the way
What I say - "excuse me please, could I just squeeze past to get that magazine"
What I think - "why don't you get the f**k out of my way, if you want to read a magazine either buy it or f**k off to the library"

Or been bumped into by another shopper in ASDA
What I say - "sorry about that"
What I think - "you clumsy f****r why don't you look where you're going, and while you're at it why don't you put some of those biscuits back on the shelf, ain't you fat enough already"

LydiaJ

Interesting read. Thanks.

I liked this bit, which I don't think gets mentioned often enough in the public/private sector debates of various kinds:

Though we believe that the British state has become far too large as a proportion of the economy, we do not advocate further marketisation or privatisation of the public services, since the evidence of the past two decades suggests that this process does not boost productivity, tending instead to create top-heavy administrative structures and a duplication of functions.