Self employed but company wants exclusivity

altern8_2

Hi all, I've been a self-employed courier for 6+ yrs working for the same company on a fixed-route, fixed-fee basis. Now they are introducing more and more rules that leave me feeling far from being self employed! Are these things right??

I use my own van which is insured for 'my business' which states delivery work - now they want it to state 'courier insurance' which is 3 times the price (at my cost of course)

I need to get GIT insurance (understandable I guess this one)

I have to provide cover for the route if I take a holiday or they will invoice me the cost of getting someone

I will need to have my van sign written with their graphics

I'm not supposed to have anyone in the van with me while carrying their goods (not even my wife, in my van)

And the latest is signing an agreement to say that I won't do any work for anyone else while I'm working for them.

I do 5am starts to lunch then 3pm to 6.45pm 5 days a week plus Sat morning so I have no time to work elsewhere! My worry is that the taxman could see this as being 'employed' and at some point come to me with a bill?

It's not how I expected self-employment to be - no choices, no options, do as THEY say...... that's employed surely?

This is the only time I've been self-employed for almost 30 years, and I never had so many requirements and rules!

Thanks for any replies.

InsideInsurance

You say you are self employed? Do you mean that (ie you are a sole trader) or are you a director with a limited company or something else?

The best thing to do is to speak to an accountant that specialises in the tax legislation around couriers etc.

It is possible for everything you have listed to exist in a true B2B relationship including the exclusivity aspect but with HMRC you work on the balance of probability and it may tip the balance for a one man crew

scheming_gypsy

altern8 wrote: »

I will need to have my van sign written with their graphics
.

don't forget to charge them for advertising

Mistral001

altern8 wrote: »

It's not how I expected self-employment to be - no choices, no options, do as THEY say...... that's employed surely?

.

I would keep a good ear to the ground to find out what is going on with this firm before approaching them about this. Are they recruiting new couriers using these new terms? What are other firms doing?

Read your present terms and conditions and comparing them with the new ones being offered, put an exact cost the new terms will have on you. This will perhaps invove getting written quotations from insurance companies and graphics suppliers (for the new livery). It is difficult to put a price on exclusivity. But you need to look into the terms and conditions as often haulage firms will alow you to work for others even though you have their name on the side of your van though I am not sure whether that applies to couriers.

You have choices. Some of them are:

You can agree to the new terms and conditions at the same rate.

You can agree to the new terms and conditions at the a negotiated higher rate

You can refuse and offer your services to other firms

Oh another one, you can offer your services to other firms finding out how much they are offering and then negotiate with existing firm and then make a choice between them all.

altern8_2

Mistral001 wrote: »

I would keep a good ear to the ground to find out what is going on with this firm before approaching them about this. Are they recruiting new couriers using these new terms? What are other firms doing?

Read your present terms and conditions and comparing them with the new ones being offered, put an exact cost the new terms will have on you. This will perhaps invove getting written quotations from insurance companies and graphics suppliers (for the new livery). It is difficult to put a price on exclusivity. But you need to look into the terms and conditions as often haulage firms will alow you to work for others even though you have their name on the side of your van though I am not sure whether that applies to couriers.

You have choices. Some of them are:

You can agree to the new terms and conditions at the same rate.

You can agree to the new terms and conditions at the a negotiated higher rate

You can refuse and offer your services to other firms

Oh another one, you can offer your services to other firms finding out how much they are offering and then negotiate with existing firm and then make a choice between them all.

Thanks for the replies-
New couriers are starting but old ones are being asked to sign as well.

As for the rest of your reply regarding everything else they want,

.......I have no contract at present and in their words 'there are two roads you can take, ours or elsewhere!'

As I said I have no options it seems if I stay, but I wondered if they 'can' do that legally or would I be able to take it further if they said 'go then'?

scheming_gypsy

you're not an employee and have no contract with them so i can't see there being anything you can do.

PlutoinCapricorn

I am not sure whether or not this company is entitled to do this - I am self employed but in a very different area - but I do agree that it sounds very restrictive. Many of us become self employed to get away from all that!

It is surely up to you to investigate what insurance you must have and what is advisable.

It is the company that should worry about being investigated by HMRC and being liable for employer's NI etc. if you are being treated as an employee in all but name.

Hammyman

Sounds typical of the terms imposed on most sub-contractors by pretty much every national parcel firm in the UK.

I hate to say it but I think they are right with the insurance. You are a courier but you effectively only have insurance for delivering your own goods but that is not what you are doing. I am surprised you've got away with not having GIT insurance for so long. It is standard practice in haulage to have to prove GIT before anyone will let you carry a load.

The holiday thing isn't right and neither is the exclusivity clause.

However, the market is flooded with "man with van" types and getting work outside of subbying is very hard to do - not impossible but it isn't guaranteed money every week. If you want stability, you'll have to sign up. If you truly want freedom and are willing to take the risk, tell them to sod off and go find your own work.

Mistral001

altern8 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies-
New couriers are starting but old ones are being asked to sign as well.

As for the rest of your reply regarding everything else they want,

.......I have no contract at present and in their words 'there are two roads you can take, ours or elsewhere!'

As I said I have no options it seems if I stay, but I wondered if they 'can' do that legally or would I be able to take it further if they said 'go then'?

I think you have to look into the advantages here as well as just all the disadvantages. You will for the first time have a written contract and you will have regular income. That is normally very hard to find as self-employed.

The difficulty with being self-employed is knowing what to charge for your services. You probably started off with this firm when the offer you got from this company was fairly good - or you thought so at the time or else you would not have taken it. rates might have seemed favorable compared with salaried work of the same type and that was all you needed to know at the time. Years on you have perhaps lost touch with what is the going rate for salaried people and it is near impossible to find out what other self-employed people are getting paid for their services.

It could well be that you will loose out financially in the short term, but in the long term you might do OK.

With regard to legal action, you need to consult a solicitor specialising in contract law, it is nothing to do with employment as far as I can see as you are not employed by this company but are contracted. Verbal contracts are often as enforceable as written contracts, so do not be put off by not having a written contract.

Lovelyjoolz

It sounds to me like that are trying to avoid paying employers costs and NI and PAYE for you. In turn you're missing out on their NI contributions for you. And yet they want you to do as you're told and march to their drum?

The bit that concerns me is this: "agreement to say that I won't do any work for anyone else while I'm working for them."

I suspect HMRC wouldn't like that and I think this is where the problems lie. Got to HMRC's website and go through the Employment Status Indicator (hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/esi.htm) it's a questionnaire to determine whether these terms would class you as an employee. It's anonymous and safe, but it should give you answers you're looking for.