A great way to kill off pensions for good

dunstonh

It is one thing to be cynical but its another thing to be ignorant and stupid.

atush

Mizz biz, so what do you say to those who are given up to 20% employers contributions- ie 'free money'? where will you get tax relief plus 20% free money into your investments?

jamesd

mizzbiz, ISA, property and stocks and shares have all been tampered with by governments. You're after something that doesn't exist any more, a way to do it without government interference and legislative risk. I do think that the legislative risk is higher in pensions, though.

The one people seem to think of as unrestricted most often is property. MIRAS abolition, possible changes to exempt status of capital gains on own home, CGT rates, mansion tax, council tax are some of the legislative changes that have or may happen in that area.

If money is involved, governments stick their fingers in the pie. It's as inevitable as dying.

dunstonh

I was simply trying to point out that the constant scandals (Equitable Life anyone?)

constant scandals? In 40 years that RACs and PPPs have been available, there are really only two issues in that period. 1) equitable life which was down to solvency and a particular fund and guarantees issued they couldnt afford and 2) pension transfers between 1988 and 1993.

poor annuity rates condemning people who have saved for forty years to pauperdom in their retirement while insurance companies cream the savings,

Annuity rates that still pay more than savings accounts. However, if you dont like annuities then you dont have to buy one.

Benefits, tax raids (when pots are already built up)

the changes in tax credits affected PEPs and ISAs and unwrapped investments.

Benefits are not something to aim for. They are a safety net.

Whilst tax savings might be attractive on the surface, the thought of me putting away £300 per month into a 'pension' fund only to realise that I would have been better off seeking alternative solutions puts myself, and many others my age, off 'doing the sensible thing'. ISA'a (which I admit can change), property and stocks and shares are just some of the alternative options that people have.

ISAs are a tax wrapper. Pensions are a tax wrapper. You could argue that unwrapped investments are effectively a tax wrapper as they are the default tax position. Stocks and shares are an investment type. You can hold those unwrapped or in a tax wrapper.

The Govt has played with taxation on ISAs and shares in recent years.

And I think more and more young people are looking to alternatives because, simply, the pensions industry, fund managers and, above all, the Government, simply cannot be trusted to be fair and equitable over the course of a persons lifetime.

Fair enough. However, you are basing your argument on obsolete and incorrect information.

Loughton_Monkey

mizzbiz wrote: »

I'm not ignorant and stupid.......

..... ISA'a (which I admit can change), property and stocks and shares are just some of the alternative options that people have...

Show me the specific funds, and stocks and share which you are 'happy' to use in your ISA - or even outside by the sound of it - and I will use exactly the same instruments under a pension wrapper.

You say you are not ignorant and stupid. Hence answering this question will be easy for you. Which of the two of us will have more money at retirement?

Can we also safely assume you will never be a higher rate taxpayer.

dunstonh

mizzbiz wrote: »

I don't know - can you safely assume that? Maybe you should go back and read the thread from the beginning as I do think you have missed the point and a number of valid arguments.

Or did you not miss them? Did you choose to ignore them?

If you are a higher rate taxpayer you would be daft to rule out pensions for some of your planning.