the public sectors of the world are literally destroying the world

Conrad

The_White_Horse wrote: »

it will. you want your kid to go to school - pay. you want food, pay. you want anything - pay.

if you can't pay - you do without.

You strike me as the sort not to be impressed if you were walking around Bombay. But that is the place where your philosophy can be seen in action.

I am heartily sick of the damage welfare has wrought, and see it as a sure way to ensure childrens life chances are blunted as they grow up in work shy households.

I'd argue for much much tougher welfare testing and regular monitoring, but not to abandon it alltogether.

The letting agent in my offices finds nearly all new enquiries are from those that on autopilot just expect housing benefit. The latest ruse here is they pretend they suffer with panic attacks when going out of the home, even though they go clubbing all weekend! 2 the other day were loudly planning thier 48hr playstation party even though they had babies. You would go nuzt working in here:A

Percy1983

I would agree, the welfare state needs tightening massively but not abandoning.

Maybe move back to a system where you actually have to pay in before you can claim, great for us workers who may need a safety net, not so good for those who have never worked in there lives.

Conrad

Percy1983 wrote: »

Maybe move back to a system where you actually have to pay in before you can claim, great for us workers who may need a safety net, not so good for those who have never worked in there lives.

That won't work as children are the responsibility of the state so a parent will always be able to claim where innocent children are at risk of becomming destitute. This is a key reason why so many claimants are having kids to get around those pesky health assesments.

To be frank I do not think there is a solution apart from something I think they do in Denmark which is to pay every adult a basic benefits package - for example £8000 pa and then it's up to each citizen if they chose to earn on top of this. Somehow that could change the emphasis and reduce resentment from us workers. It would involve ghreater taxation though.

Running Horse will never see his dreams fulfilled for as long as society values the rights of children to a level of comfort.

shortchanged_2

Fair play White Horse I know you are a troll and all and I shouldn't really waste my time answering you.

While I may agree there is a bloating of the public sector that needs trimming back and that the welfare state has been abused for far too long, there does still need to be some form of public sector.

I think the abuse that was seen in that privately run mental health home showed that the private sector certainly does not belong in certain areas. I'm afraid when everything is run for profit there is often a conflict of interest as in this instance they are providing a service for all the wrong reasons. i.e they don't really care about the patients in their care they are really just interested in making the money.

Percy1983

I guess this is the issue, in short I do beleive rather than keep giving professional breeders bigger houses and more money we should give them enough room/money to support 3 children, if they then can't support there 6 children they get 3 taken off them.

The end of the day you shouldn't have children you can't support, so to have loads of children you can't support should be classed as child abuse.

Interesting what you say about Denmark, to a point it would get rid of a problem we have here of you can earn more not working than working, with a system like that we would all have the same money and any work above that would be an instant reward.

StevieJ

Conrad wrote: »

The letting agent in my offices finds nearly all new enquiries are from those that on autopilot just expect housing benefit. The latest ruse here is they pretend they suffer with panic attacks when going out of the home, even though they go clubbing all weekend! 2 the other day were loudly planning thier 48hr playstation party even though they had babies. You would go nuzt working in here:A

Hey it happens

Conrad

Percy1983 wrote: »

if they then can't support there 6 children they get 3 taken off them.

.

Percy, the state always has to put the interests of children first and ALL studies show kids in general achieve far better outcomes when bought up in thier own family as opposed to state care. State forced child confiscation just ain't ever going to happen. What you are saying would get nods of approval down the pub but it just doesn't bare any scrutiny.

Don;t get me wrong, I think it's dispicable what goes on in the world of welfare, and I'm always arguing with the lefties in the discussion section part of our forum here. Thing is there realy is no magic solution, and always have in mind kids needs for welfare will trump the needs of hard pressed Tax payers.

useless_git_requires_wife

Load of old cobblers.

mj12_2

Welfare keeps the proletariat in line :-) take it away and they'd have nothing left to do but riot and burgle - they might (omnipotent deity forbid) even start voting. As Churchill said 'The best argument against democracy is 5 minutes with the average voter'

Conrad

useless_git_requires_wife wrote: »

Load of old cobblers.

Errmn, which post is cobblers - my mind reading cap is not what it was:cool:?