'How far would you go to avoid tax? ' poll discussion

ParsimoniousPercy

Who would agree with me that having to pay tax on savings interest, when that interest is not even sufficient to keep up with inflation, is really unfair.

I don't mind tax on a profit, but savers are actually paying tax on what is effectively a loss on their investment.

"Inflation means £10,000 saved 5 years ago, at average interest + tax at 20%, has spending power of just £9,402 today - Moneyfacts."

NAP6W

I think most people have paid a tradesman cash or bought something cash, or even taken a few pens from the stationary cupboard!! All these things are both illegal and immoral but we have a compass within us all that lets us away with certain things.

I did a survey at university about workplace deviance and the worst offenders were the lecturers!!!

We would attempt to get away with what we could based on the old risk/reward scenario.

Cerisa

"We would attempt to get away with what we could based on the old risk/reward scenario."

Which I guess is why so many people think its acceptable to skip out on £6 bn worth of tax.

Soubrette

I would do anything legal including tax avoidance. I don't mind paying people cash for jobs, this is not illegal but I do expect all paperwork, guarantees etc, avoiding VAT is not the only reason that a trademan may prefer cash.

I find the older I get, the more sympathy I have with tax evasion mainly because politicians get to do it legally. Two examples that spring to mind - their expenses, far more than the stringent expense rules the rest of us have to follow - wholly and exclusively to do with our employment and exempting themselves from the IR35 type laws where a director of a ltd company has to prove that the contract he has with a buyer is not one of employment so they can avoid NI payments for their wives/partners/children by employing them.

I think, if I were not so lazy, that I would like to live as 'tax free' as possible for a period of time - buying vat exempted/second hand things, earning less than the income tax levels etc. Just to see how far it could be taken.

Stryder

I wonder what Martin would really do ....? Especially now he is not working for the News of the World, maybe he will be forced into something immoral lol

Personally, I think this is hard to discuss lightly. So many people get txed twice, like Inheritance tax, that I can oercieve people happy to avoid this but would never cheat on income tax. Unfortunately with all the so called stealth taxes and biased taxes, it is hard to really judge this issue from a moral perspective.

Anyway, not everyone has MPs expenses to fiddle to compensate

ken_1969

misti wrote: »

I put anything, but thats not really to get out of paying my share.

Entering the fantasy world of euro millions, decided the first thing I would do, would be to get the cash out of uk tax system, but only to reinvest it in better ways, charity donations, foundations, green energy, wind farms, green social housing, & rain forrest (to protect it), till it was all gone. As I wouldn't want half being spent on nuclear weapons, but would put it all back into making a better society. And any money earned from that would go thru the normal tax system, & give me some money to live on.

Those that are rich & have offshore accounts to stay rich & have money sitting in banks are just rude x

I think you'd be surprised at just how quickly even a huge euro millions win would quickly disappear on the types of projects you would invest in.

Say you won £30m - a wind farm - say 10 wind turbines - would easily blow that amount (pun intended), and only generate maybe 50MW of power - hardly enough to benefit society in any meaningful way. The same money invested in housing might produce 4-500 homes. And once it's gone it's gone.

On the other hand, investing it intelligently, and working to pay the minimum tax you could, might net you £2-3m profit per annum. If you continue to invest in your green projects, after ten years you have exceeded the £30m you would have blown instantly, and your £30m capital is still intact.

If you put that capital in trust, it could continue to earn £2-3m every year to invest wherever you want, even after your death. After 50 years, you've now invested £150m in your chosen charitable foundations and green projects which I would say is much smarter, an.d there's no reason that can't continue indefinitely (ensuring you top up your pot for example to counteract inflation).

I think you will find it's the same reason "the rich" invest in offshore accounts - they don't want to make a dent in their capital by just spending it, or having it taxed to the hilt - they want to live comfortably off the income generated. I would say that most are thinking not just about themselves, but the long term future of their families. Not sure there's anything rude about saving to look after your family. Charity, as the saying goes, begins at home.

ken_1969

Cerisa wrote: »

"We would attempt to get away with what we could based on the old risk/reward scenario."

Which I guess is why so many people think its acceptable to skip out on £6 bn worth of tax.

As another poster said, we all have our own moral compass, and I think many people's compass tells them that the tax system in this country is completely unfair.

By it's very nature a tax based on a percentage means everyone pays the same proportion of their income. By increasing this percentage for those with higher incomes it means they pay a significantly higher proportion of their income to support those who are unable - or unwilling - to earn more.

I have no objection to paying for public services, and would be in favour of higher taxes for all to ensure we have higher quality services - but as we all benefit equally from those services, we should contribute equally.

I work very hard, 50 hour weeks, and feel pretty disappointed when I see that for every additional £1 I earn, I only get 60p. If I earn more, at a certain point my "reward" is, that I lose another 10p on the £1! What's the point in that?

If I have significant savings in this country (which I don't!) after tax and inflation any interest I earn is almost negligible unless I invest in high risk propositions like stocks, shares and property. Equally, if I was to die prematurely I then have to accept that a large chunk of everything I have worked hard for will be taxed again.

It absolutely makes sense to avoid as much tax as you can (legally). At a certain point it also makes sense to leave the UK and move somewhere that has a fairer tax regime. Vote with your feet as the saying goes.

What is outrageous is that even if you leave the country never to return the tax man still tries to get his claws into you. It's not far from serfdom where I am beholden to my "master" and am effectively his property, regardless of whether I'm on his land or not. So much for democracy and freedom.

If we had a flat tax system, there would be significantly less reason for those with high income to go through the hassle of taking their money out of the system, which would result in more tax in the governments coffers.

And by the way, many of those who take their cash out of the system put them in tax havens which are either Crown dependencies or British Overseas Territories so the UK government has a lot to answer for, as they created these regimes themselves.

Cerisa

I'm not exonerating the government - I was blaming them as they tolerate tax loopholes for themselves and their friends. The thing is again that somebody earning 50 grand a year can afford to lose a higher proportion of their income than someone on an income of 14 grand a year. And by afford i'm thinking in terms of being able to pay rent, afford basic necessities, feed yourself etc.


"support those who are unable - or unwilling - to earn more."

If someone is unable to work then we have to support them - that's a matter of ethics. Talking about someone being unwilling to earn more is a bit odd in a country where wages are not going up, and many businesses are suffering and so paying lower wages. I hate this idea that working hard means higher wages. Not in my experience.

PaulHUK

cit_k wrote: »

I wonder if the the tax people see this thread, whether they will use their pretty much unlimited powers to get copies of all ip addressess/email addresses of those who said they are quite prepared to engage in criminal conduct.

They would surely have damn good reason to, and MSE would have to supply such information...

You're probably on the right lines LOL...

BUT bad news all because:

1) This forum and the poll is not on https (it's not secure) so anything you send or view is open to interception.

2) If you are with TalkTalk then they already share your browsing data communications (look up StalkStalk and the chinese supplied hardware from Huawei which examines all the data you receive and send for the TalkTalk system)

3) Vodaphone are using BlueCoat technology and similar to TalkTalk, your browsing data is not just between you and the websites you exchange data/information with

4) BT did the Phorm Webwise thing and snooped on thousands of their customers to classify their interests without getting their permission

Others will be "at it" too, because they can, because the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and Information Commissioner's Office do nothing about it.

It seems like the "little people" are fair game. Our communication on the internet is not private from point to point. It is ok to re-route it for commercial gain through third parties without your consent and without the consent of the websites you use.

Only recently and only if you are a famous actor, MP or a relative of an unfortunate victim of war or murder etc does anyone care about whether your communication is private.

Rant over and tin foil hat straightened! I should think there will be a a limited level of interest by authorities in the anonymous and aggregated results on this survey

FATBALLZ

I hope we aren't going to get anyone else posting on this topic attempting to scare people with their fake legal/technical knowledge that was badly pieced together from trivial pusuit junior edition.

While I don't object to paying tax in principle, I do personally think people like me - young, hardworking graduates - are overtaxed. We basically pay an extra 9% tax banding that the older generations who have economically been very fortunate through housing and pensions do not have to pay. This extra tax is basically required to fund state payouts to the older generations via welfare, public sector pensions and the NHS and I consider the burden placed on us too high - this is in addition to direct wealth transfers from young to old in the form of house purchases or renting - skyrocketing house prices have caused this. Therefore if I could evade some tax and be sure of not being caught, I'd struggle to say I wouldn't do it.